The Witch Hunt Revealed

[ZEE]

I am glad we are talking about Gulen. In some ancient texts, Gulen actually means: Perfect One.

It really is a great word too... GOO-LEN. I like to accentuate the "GOO" part.

[Kidlicious]

The military always saw itself to be responsible for keeping the Turkey secular (and preventing an islamist takeover of the turkish government) ... in fact, all coups that were staged in the decades before Erdogan were staged by the military.
It is also a fact that Erdogan in the couple of years tried to replace Kemalists in the turkish military with Islamists/Erdoganists ... so it is very probable that the coup attempt was staged by generals that wanted to strike before their influence in the military became too weak.
It is also very well possible that the coup actually was a fake coup, instigated by erdoganist elements in the military ... just like, in germany, the Reichstag Fire actually was a fake terror attack that was just meant to bring Hitler to power.

Fact is in every case, that the coup was staged by elements in the military and that it was very ill prepared (I would say, that there was no big chance for the coup to actually succeed)

I would also say that it is a fact that, had there actually so many co-conspirators as have been arrested by Erdogan under allegations of being/supporting terrorists, Erdogan wouldn't be in power anymore

These are some facts that you obviously did not consider in addition to the fact that the Erdogan govt was purging Gulen's supporters for deep state activities ...

1) Gulenists conducted the coup. Turkey's leading military commander who was captured has stated that his captors asked him if he wanted to talk to Gulen.

2) Gulen himself called for a coup.

[Proteus_MST]

If there is an attempted coup against Trump he is justified in doing all of those things. Coups against democratic governments are bad mkay. So sad that that has to be said to you.

If you don't think Gulen is responsible then who is?

The military always saw itself to be responsible for keeping the Turkey secular (and preventing an islamist takeover of the turkish government) ... in fact, all coups that were staged in the decades before Erdogan were staged by the military.
It is also a fact that Erdogan in the couple of years tried to replace Kemalists in the turkish military with Islamists/Erdoganists ... so it is very probable that the coup attempt was staged by generals that wanted to strike before their influence in the military became too weak.
It is also very well possible that the coup actually was a fake coup, instigated by erdoganist elements in the military ... just like, in germany, the Reichstag Fire actually was a fake terror attack that was just meant to bring Hitler to power.

Fact is in every case, that the coup was staged by elements in the military and that it was very ill prepared (I would say, that there was no big chance for the coup to actually succeed)

I would also say that it is a fact that, had there actually so many co-conspirators as have been arrested by Erdogan under allegations of being/supporting terrorists, Erdogan wouldn't be in power anymore

[Kidlicious]

Comey said that the interview with Flynn was unethical but bragged about getting away with it. (Admitted to sending the agents.)

[Kidlicious]

The Gulenists launched corruption probes against AKP heavyweights; Erdogan retaliated by purging Gulenists from the bureaucracy, media, and business worlds—an effort that was ongoing when the coup attempt touched off on July 15.

Some important background information. Gulenist look like the most likely culprit to me.

[Kidlicious]

If there is an attempted coup against Trump he is justified in doing all of those things. Coups against democratic governments are bad mkay. So sad that that has to be said to you.

If you don't think Gulen is responsible then who is?

[Proteus_MST]

So you think trying to overthrow the govt is moderate?

So you believe the claims by Erdogan and his state propaganda network, that Gulen was behind the coup attempt?
Well, I shouldn't be surprised ...
for one because you also believe Trumpian propaganda
for the other because, duie to the distance and the disinterest of most US citizens in europe, there is a lot of disinformation getting spread

If you had watched / received actual news about the turkish coup attempt and its aftermath, you would know, that:
1. Erdogan abused the coup attempt in order to incorrectly scapegoat all of his political enemies for the coup (Gulen was one of them because, former ally of Erdogan, he broke off from Erdogan after Erdogan became more and more extremist)
2. Erdogan also abused the incident to syystematically dismantle the free press. In the months and years after the coup attempt, lots of media outlets got closed and their journalists incarcerated under false accusations of helping terrorists
3. Political parties that are competitors to Erdogan also got decimated and their leaders arrested or threatened
4. A large percentage of university teachers got arrested or lost their jobs under false accusations of helping terrorists and their positions either left vacant or they got replaced by islamic religiionists
5. Anyone wanting to take part in protests against Erdogan (in turkey) risks either getting arrested by police, or getting beaten up by Erdoganists
6. That Erdogan also tries to actively install a system of informants ion other countries, which are supposed to inform state representatives about people critical of Erdogan .... and in some cases actively intimidating critics of Erdogan (just ask Can Dündar)
7. That, if you have a turkish passport (but are living in another country, like germany), post something critical of Erdogan, for example on facebook, and then go on holiday to turkey, you may have a high risk of getting arrested (something that happened to a lot of german turks during the last year, as well as to german-turkish journalists who wrote articles critical of Erdogan)


It is somethign that Trump dreams of, but cannot install in the USA, because democracy there still is too strong.
And it also is very similar to how Hitler gained control of the german nation (i.e. by using a fake terrorism threat, directed at his political enemies (and other scapegoats), in order to declare a national emergency (that gives him elevated powers) and then incarcerating and/or killing those who could endanger his rule)

It may actually well be that Erdogan himself had something to do with the failed coup attempt (for example snitches in the military, which instigated some elements to actually stage the coup at a time of Erdogans wishes)

Fact is that the current turkish state under Erdogan has more in common with a police state and is more far away from being something like a democracy, than the turkish state a decade ago

[Kidlicious]

There is nothing moderate about Kemalism. It's a different type of extremism.

[Kidlicious]

Same piece ...

And when secularism is so shallow, it is unsurprising to find that so-called secularists share so much with Islamists. For in fact, they are in full agreement on issues of critical relevance, such as in seeing the Turkish republic as a Muslim country that belongs to Sunni Turks.

Indeed, an important part of the problem is that secularism, in its Turkish context, never conceptualized the separation of state and religion. Turkish secularism utterly failed at creating a state that was impartial in its treatment of diverse faith communities. From its inception to this day, the “secular” Turkish republic has been a Sunni Muslim state where non-Sunni Muslims (called the Alevicommunities) and non-Muslims are regularly discriminated against.

The genetic code of the Turkish republic therefore is not based on genuine secularization. Instead, it is founded on Turkish nation-building and three historic tragedies: the de-Hellenization of Anatolia, the Armenian genocide, and the denial of Kurdish ethnic identity. In that sense, the Islam-versus-secularism fairytale fails to capture the centrifugal force that unites the majority of the Turkish populace, the Turkish political system and the foundational code of the Turkish state, the latter being conservative nationalism.

The marriage of nationalism with conservatism gives us the real official ideology of the republic: a Turkish-Islamic synthesis that gained official visibility after the 1980 military coup, when the generals began openly to embrace religious nationalism against socialism and Kurdish nationalism.

Erdogan’s embrace of Kemalism, therefore, is in great harmony and continuity with an authoritarian state tradition based on conservative nationalism. The glue that holds together this alliance between Kemalists and neo-Ottomansis the deeply rooted desire for full independence, full sovereignty and the national power to counter Western “imperialists” who are seen as modern-day Christian crusaders.
....

[Kidlicious]

The alliance among Erdogan, nationalists and ultra-secularists within the military is a case in point. Make no mistake, Erdogan is a religious conservative with Islamist tendencies. But above all, he is a populist nationalist who has no qualms about embracing the legacy of Ataturk – known as Kemalism – in favor of national sovereignty.

This is why it is time to replace the Islam-versus-secularism duality with the real political driver of Turkish politics: Turkish nationalism, the meeting point – rather than divergence – of secularists and Islamists.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=newssearch&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjzuZawmp_fAhXi5oMKHYppCxYQzPwBegQIARAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atimes.com%2Fislam-vs-secularism-theory-of-turkish-politics-misses-the-point%2F&psig=AOvVaw1hv2m9ude1k3oa8gY7Fjkk&ust=1544872957648756

[Kidlicious]

That Gulen is a cult leader is some kind of misinformation that Erdogan spreads (since Guilen broke off from Erdogan ... they were political allies at one time)
In fact Gulens schools in germany seem to be more moderate than the mnuslim religious schools that are supported by Erdogan

Gulen is more of a Kemalist, whereas Erdogan tries to strengthen the influence of religion in turkey ... for example by abandoning the decade old prohibition on head veils in turkish universities.

If you want to see the picture of turkey that Erdogan represents, just look here:
https://nypost.com/2017/05/17/state-...on-protesters/

The people running up to the lawn and beating and kicking other people are part of Erdogans security detail, kicking peacefulo protesters ... and they did so with full support of their beloved president (and this wasn't the only incident ... this seems to happen regularly when Erdogan comes to the USA)

So you think trying to overthrow the govt is moderate?

[Proteus_MST]

Gulen is a radical Muslim cult leader. It's one thing to advocate for an ally. It's another thing to advocate for a cult leader that has told his followers to overthrow the government of our ally.

That Gulen is a cult leader is some kind of misinformation that Erdogan spreads (since Guilen broke off from Erdogan ... they were political allies at one time)
In fact Gulens schools in germany seem to be more moderate than the mnuslim religious schools that are supported by Erdogan

Gulen is more of a Kemalist, whereas Erdogan tries to strengthen the influence of religion in turkey ... for example by abandoning the decade old prohibition on head veils in turkish universities.


In fact it was Erdogan who went to prison for some time because he recited a poem by a radical islamist, in which he (i.e. said islamist) wrote about his dream about using the faithful believers in order to usurp control of the (turkish) state


If you want to see the picture of turkey that Erdogan represents, just look here:
https://nypost.com/2017/05/17/state-...on-protesters/

The people running up to the lawn and beating and kicking other people are part of Erdogans security detail, kicking peacefulo protesters ... and they did so with full support of their beloved president (and this wasn't the only incident ... this seems to happen regularly when Erdogan comes to the USA)

[Kidlicious]

Interesting 60 Minutes video in that piece. They accuse Gulen of instructing his followers to get into the Turkish government and create a deep state to control the government. And they do that.

Bill Clinton's friend.

[Kidlicious]

Turkey gets pardoned by every pres on a yearly basis

Gulen is a radical Muslim cult leader. It's one thing to advocate for an ally. It's another thing to advocate for a cult leader that has told his followers to overthrow the government of our ally.

[Kidlicious]

Three videos that people should watch embedded in Flynn's piece.

https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/foreign-policy/305021-our-ally-turkey-is-in-crisis-and-needs-our-support

Gulen is a friend of Bill Clinton. There are ties to the Clinton Foundation. Flynn was making powerful enemies by putting that out.

Doesn't look like it was a bribe though, but should have disclosed.