Falkland Islanders to hold referendum over sovereignty

[Tupac Shakur]

Omagh

Drake supports the killers of pregnant women and children. Real classy...

Kindly show me where I've supported the Real IRA (RIRA). I haven't even expressed support for the Provos; I've just pointed out that they exercised admirable restraint in their major attacks in England. The RIRA showed no such restraint, and operate on the same depraved level that Britain's Unionist allies did during the Troubles.

[Tupac Shakur]

The Troubles did more to hurt the Catholics of Northern Ireland than anything else you tool. ... Without the IRA and the Loyalist terrorists the lives of everyone in Northern Ireland would be better right now.

This is quite possibly true, but I don't see how you can blame the PIRA for the Troubles when it was Britain's Unionist allies that started them.

The UVF is an illegal loyalist paramilitary organization that formed in response to a perceived revival of the IRA at the time of the 50th anniversary of the Easter Rising. That month the UVF began a campaign of intimidation against a Catholic-owned off-licence on the Shankill Road. Its members painted sectarian graffiti on the neighbouring house and threw a petrol bomb through the window, killing a 77-year-old Protestant widow.

On 21 May 1966, the UVF issued a statement:

From this day, we declare war against the IRA and its splinter groups. Known IRA men will be executed mercilessly and without hesitation. Less extreme measures will be taken against anyone sheltering or helping them, but if they persist in giving them aid, then more extreme methods will be adopted . . . we solemnly warn the authorities to make no more speeches of appeasement. We are heavily armed Protestants dedicated to this cause.

On 11 June 1966, the UVF shot and killed Catholic store owner John Patrick Scullion in west Belfast. On 26 June 1966, another UVF gun attack in west Belfast killed Catholic barman Peter Ward and seriously injured three others. On 30 March 1969 a UVF bomb exploded at an electricity station in Castlereagh, resulting in widespread black-outs. A further five bombs were exploded at electricity stations and water pipelines throughout April. It was hoped that these attacks would be blamed on the IRA, forcing moderate unionists to increase their opposition to the reforms of Terence O'Neill's government.

I imagine you think the Catholics in Northern Ireland are to blame for not sitting idly by once Britain's Unionist allies moved beyond mild terrorism to attacking civil rights marches.

[Tupac Shakur]

They practised restraint only when they determined that mass loss of life would hurt their cause internationally.

Thank you for mostly repeating a point I've already made.

Your comment is a little off the mark, though; the Provos practiced restraint after they determined that any loss of life in the UK hurt their cause politically in the UK by giving the British government a bloody shirt to wave in order to rally domestic support for the status quo in Northern Ireland. Blowing up empty sections of major English cities imposed unbearable costs on the British government without triggering a counterproductive increase in political support for them.

I have met plenty of Catholics from Northern Ireland who are around my age. I've never met one who didn't think the IRA were despicable murdering thugs and gangsters.

That's accurate. All the military and paramilitary groups involved in fighting the Troubles were despicable murdering thugs, the British Army included. The PIRA was no exception.

[Alexander's Horse]

One good thing I found was this, which kept me going on the more difficult days

[MichaeltheGreat]

It's a different mindset, though. The hard core Taleban (not just the random hired hand) has a "divine vision" to create a wholly different world order - they just don't share in the grandiose expansive vision of the arabs and Pakis like al Maududi. They're the "politics are local" version. Like Omar's interview about the destruction of the statues of Bamiyan. If you wanted a UK example, I think Cromwell would be closer than either side in the troubles, but still, Cromwell at his uptightest would be like Omar gone hippie.

[Alexander's Horse]

I actually got interested in this stuff trying to understand the mentality of the Taliban, not taking sides in the troubles, (before everyone piles in on me).

For 800 years we fought you without fear, and we will fight you for 800 more? I'm sure there is a Pashtun version

[MichaeltheGreat]

Grammy material, that.

I'm sure Drake will slink back with some other troll about someone else done over by the evil, evil Brits so he can play more games, then we can leave gun control behind.

[Alexander's Horse]

and so we move on to gun control...say what you like about the IRA, they have some catchy songs, Tiocfaidh ár lá is a gaelic phrase which means "our day will come",





God save Ireland, said the heroes
God save Ireland, said they all
Whether on the scaffold high
Or the battlefield we die
Oh, what matter when for Erin dear we fall

High upon the gallows tree swung the noble hearted three
By the vengeful tyrant stricken in their bloom
But they met him face to face with the courage of their race
And they went with souls undaunted to their doom

God save Ireland, said the heroes
God save Ireland, said they all
Whether on the scaffold high
Or the battlefield we die
Oh, what matter when for Erin dear we fall

Climbed they up the rugged stair, rang their voices out in prayer
Then with England's fatal cord around them cast
Close beside the gallows tree kissed like brothers lovingly
True to home and faith and freedom to the last

God save Ireland, said the heroes
God save Ireland, said they all
Whether on the scaffold high
Or the battlefield we die
Oh, what matter when for Erin dear we fall

Never till the latest day shall the memory pass away
Of the gallant lives thus given for our land
But on the cause must go, amidst joy and weal and woe
Till we make our Isle a nation free and grand

God save Ireland, said the heroes
God save Ireland, said they all
Whether on the scaffold high
Or the battlefield we die
Oh, what matter when for Erin dear we fall

[MichaeltheGreat]

No, the tiny minority of idiots correlates to high rates of gun violence and murders, just like the tiny minority of idiots who drive drunk or grossly unsafely correlates to the fatal automobile accident rate.

Intelligence

[Sava]

millions of them do.

Which directly correlates to high rates of gun violence and murders.

Freedom

[MichaeltheGreat]

Actually, millions of them do. They just don't do anything to make the news.

[Sava]

You just wait until those rednecks start their campaign of terror for a free white state, then you'll see how difficult it is to prevent.

I'm not sure it hasn't already begun. This whole gun thing is pretty freaky. It could spiral into into a real mess... a Waco Texas incident every other week.

Some prison official in Colorado was shot to death. I haven't read the latest details. That may have been an assassination considering the timing was so close to the signing of a new gun law in state.

Gun people are psychos. Just like there's no safe cigarette, there is no such thing as a responsible gun owner. Responsible people don't possess firearms.

[MichaeltheGreat]

We'll welcome them all to leave.

It's also pretty easy to spot them among the civilian populace - just make 'em open their mouths, and the five teeth and wad of Red Man chaw will give 'em away every time.

[kentonio]

I'm still amazed that this supposedly civilized country couldn't handle **** in it's own backyard... in my lifetime.

You just wait until those rednecks start their campaign of terror for a free white state, then you'll see how difficult it is to prevent.

[MikeH]

Clear demonstration of how difficult it is to deal with embedded terrorist elements in civilian populations if you are also trying to not hurt civilians.