Philippines

[Stefan Härtel]

Hey amigos, I need some help on this: The Spanish-American War in the Philippines.
Thanks to the excellent scenario "The War of Cuba" I know a bit more about the Cuban War now, but what about the Philippines? Why did they become American after the war? What happened there (I know only that a Spanish fleet was destroyed in the bay of Manila)????


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[Prometeus]

The battle of Manila, and a continous gerrilla warfare after the conquest. That's all i know about these islands. I'm curious too... try to look at Altavista, spanish section...

[Jay Bee]

It was very simple, The Americans wanted the archipelago and took it by force. Ditto for the island of Guam. The War of Cuba was the perfect excuse. Spain of course was no match at all for the US military. This, together with the enormous distance between Philipines and the motherland made the war short and easy for the Americans.

What is a pity is that, except for the names of most of the people, Philippines has completely lost its Hispanic roots. Practically no one speaks Spanish there anymore. The Americans did in Philippines what they didn't do in California, Florida, Texas etc.... It's so funny that people called Marcos, Aquino or Estrada can't speak a word in Spanish!

The only famous Spanish-speaking Filipino is Enrique Iglesias... who is only half-Filipino. A bit pathetic, uh?
[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited January 27, 2001).]

[Chris 62]

This is one I can help with. After the battle of Manilla Bay, the US commander Dewey sent a naval landing party to take Manilla. The natives under Aguinaldo at first welcomed this, as they thought that they would be granted independance. When an American division (commanded by Arthur MacArthur, Douglas MacArthur's father), arrived in July, Aguinaldo unleashed a full scale insurgency that would last eleven years. The US contingent in the Boxer rebellion in China was drawn from it's phillipine forces. The Spanish Prime Minister Sagasta excepted 20 million dollars as payment for the Phillipines, in the hope it would soften the US position on Cuba(Many in the US congress wanted to annex Cuba, others wanted to offer statehood. Just think how different history would be if that happened!) For an excellent book on the Spanish-american war try "A ship to remenber" by Michael Blow. Despite it's title, it covers the whole war. If you want a more detailed accout, e-mail me and I'll send you some info on it.

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 01-27-2001 06:44 AM It was very simple, The Americans wanted the archipelago and took it by force. Ditto for the island of Guam. The War of Cuba was the perfect excuse. Spain of course was no match at all for the US military. This, together with the enormous distance between Philipines and the motherland made the war short and easy for the Americans.

Hey Jay Bee, did you know at the time the world thought that Spain would win easily? When the US asiatic fleet left it's base in Hong Kong(the british let them keep ships there at that time, as the US had no asian bases in 1898), bets were being taken by all the other ships on when(not if!) the Spanish would destroy the Americans!

[Jay Bee]

quote: Hey Jay Bee, did you know at the time the world thought that Spain would win easily? When the US asiatic fleet left it's base in Hong Kong(the british let them keep ships there at that time, as the US had no asian bases in 1898), bets were being taken by all the other ships on when(not if!) the Spanish would destroy the Americans!

Well, I am not so sure of that. Everybody knew at that time that the Spanish navy was faaar away from what had been in the past. Some ships were actually pretty good and other were.... wooden ships! On top of that t the officers were just terrible

Another important factor you pointed out is that the assistance that the UK provided to the US and not to Spain, despite they had declared themselves neutral. If Germany had joined on the Spanish side.... (which could have well occurred), things might have been so different.

Did you know that a bunch of Spanish soldiers resisted in a church deep in the jungle for more than 100 days after the armistice was signed? They refused to admit that Spain could have surrendered so soon.


[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited January 27, 2001).]

[Stefan Härtel]

cpoulos: Mail sent

Jay Bee:

quote: Another important factor you pointed out is that the assistance that the UK provided to the US and not to Spain, despite they had declared themselves neutral. If Germany had joined on the Spanish side.... (which could have well occurred), things might have been so different.

Yes, Germany might have had joined the war, since Spain enterred the Triple Alliance in 1887. They had their base in Tsingtau, and Wilhelm had his troubles with England (although he was the grandson of Victoria!). In Europe the situation was not different either. Whilst under Wilhelm I. (1871-1888) and Bismarck the relations between Germany and Britain were very close and intensive, they had several hostilities under Wilhelm II. (A war almost occured in the 1890s when Germany was supporting Russia with arms).

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country.
-George W. Bush

Shahan Shah Eran ud Aneran

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[Jay Bee]

Spain has traditionally been very proximal to Germany. There are multiple examples throughout history. Spain sold the Marianas archipelago to Germany in 1899 after so much insistence on the part of Germany. Had Spain ceded the Marianas a bit before, Germany would have felt 'obliged' to defend Spain against the perennial "Angloimperialistic" agression. German naval power + Spanish ground troops equipped with German guns = Decisive American defeat. History however tends to be written lately in a very Anglophile way

[kIndal]

Not always Germany has been our friend, at this moment I remember when some years after "the disaster of 98" German battleship "Panther" make a show of their militar power in the Spanish-Morroccian?(¿como se dice marroqui?) city of Agadir, this fact is consider as the preliminars of The First World War and meaning a reorganization of the colonialism in Africa to the detriment of Spain which lost lots of parts of Morrocco.
But really, Wir have very schon relationships with Deustchland

[kIndal]

I have forgotten!!!!!!!
Stefan i have some information about the revolt in Philipinnes against Spanish, if you want it, just send me a email to indalito@yahoo.com

[Stefan Härtel]

The "Panthersprung" to Agadir had other backgrounds. It was one of the many hostilities "we" had to France. France wanted to dominate Morocco, but Germany had many economical interests there. It is too difficult and extensive to write out here, but it turned out that Germany became patron of Morocco, and twice, in 1906 (or 1908, I'm not sure) and in 1911 it nearly came to war with France, however it was turned away in the last second, France got Morocco, Germany got a little terrain expansion in Cameroon (which they had to cede to France again six years later ).
The "Panther" was a German cannon boat that appeared at the fortress of Agadir in 1911, this sighting loosened the second crisis. I don't know wether the fortress was Spanish or French, but our French amis took it personally

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country.
-George W. Bush

Shahan Shah Eran ud Aneran

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[Jay Bee]

I agree with Stefan. The German showdown in Agadir was not against the Spanish but the French.

Unrelated to the topic, I just remembered something:

They seek him here, they seek him there, those Frenchies seek him everywhere. Will be in hell, will be in heaven, that dammned and elusive Scarlet Pimpernel?... (what a beautiful movie! )

(PS. I may have made up part of the verses. It's been several years since I last saw the movie.)
[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited January 27, 2001).]

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 01-27-2001 05:27 PM Spain has traditionally been very proximal to Germany. There are multiple examples throughout history. Spain sold the Marianas archipelago to Germany in 1899 after so much insistence on the part of Germany. Had Spain ceded the Marianas a bit before, Germany would have felt 'obliged' to defend Spain against the perennial "Angloimperialistic" agression. German naval power + Spanish ground troops equipped with German guns = Decisive American defeat. History however tends to be written lately in a very Anglophile way

Let me chime in here with an american(BOOOO) point of view. Navel power in this time was very much depended upon coaling stations to move major warships. The USN(United States Navy) was fighting very close to home in the carribean. Also Germany did not have any vessels to match the U.S. Idaho class. The first german ship with similar weapons wasn't built until three years later(1901 SMS Braunschweig). There were no dreadnaughts(1905). The USN had begun a major exspanion in 1900 (caused in part by A.T.Mahan's book). It is also important to understand that Imperial Germany had close ties to Britian(Bismark's doing), and so was unlikly to aid Spain if the cost were British intervention. A word about British help(This part is for you Jay Bee). The U.S. Asiatic fleet always was stationed at Hong Kong in the winter(in summer it was in Japan). When word that war was declared between the US and Spain the american vessels were given 24 hours to clear out, as was required by international law. This fleet headed right for Manila. The German squadron on the asiatic station at that time had only old and slow protected cruisers, no match for the modern U.S.S.Olypia. Also, the US was a maritime power of long standing and the germans were not. As for history, it is always written by the victors, so always take it with a grain of salt.


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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 01-27-2001 11:19 AM Did you know that a bunch of Spanish soldiers resisted in a church deep in the jungle for more than 100 days after the armistice was signed? They refused to admit that Spain could have surrendered so soon.

Didn't know that one! I'll add it to my files!

[This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited January 27, 2001).]

[Jay Bee]

Well, cpoulos, despite your comments being with an American point of view ( ) you are most likely correct (at least more than me, who was speaking in terms of what if). According to the book "the Last of the Philippines" by Manuel Leguineche (dedicated to those brave but crazy men to whom I referred to in a previous post), the American ships were allowed to dock in British ports while the Spanish were not.

Also I must bring here these famous words by Roosevelt: "please tell the President to send more troops to the island, for we might be on the verge of the greatest American disaster", which tell me that if the Spanish army had had German guns, the invasion of Cuba by the American troops could have resulted in a massacre. The Spanish did not receive German guns only because Britain vetoed it.

PS. The comment about history being written in an Anglophile way meant to be a compliment.