Announcement

**Victor Galis** · March 11, 2001, 15:34

Well, it's finally over, and I can't say I'm sorry to see it end. There was a time when I thought that it was possible to prevent a German solo, unfortunately, I did not realize how poor the tactical skills of my allies were. Three times, a perfectly good stalemate line was destroyed by one small tactical blunder (Shadowstrike was the first with his build of a fleet, Defiant lost quite a bit later on, and now last turn Gerwald.) Under such conditions, the German solo became inevitable, and I refused to continue to try with allies displaying the military leadership abilities of small canteloupes.

But now on the earlier game:

I inherited a powerful Nigeria very early in the game. My objectives were simple: grow. Egypt met the wrath of a combined assault, and the three way Nigeria-Turkey-Iran alliance was born. At the same time the remenants of Algeria were being taken out. Before long, Nigeria had fairly extensive control of Africa, and need of a new target.

Some diplomacy was done, and after a small while Iran(Hacksaw) was chosen as the new target. A new tripple alliance of Russia Nigeria and Turkey emerged, but very quickly became unstable when Russia decided to be very unreasonable in asking for Iranian centers. The resulting Russo-Nigerian War (also known as the mandatory one Defiant Victor-Defiant war per game) led to early losses for Russia, especially after Nigeria convinced its ally Germany to pick up a few centers.

Unfortunately the tides were turning. Nigeria hit its largest obstacle. You see Nigeria has a massive geographical dissadvantage, if it is trying to solo. The Mediterranean is a formidable obstacle, that can only be crossed with much effort. Unfortunately, at the time Turkey controlled it, and I happened to think Turkey was a good ally, so I had made no attempt to take the Med. This would come back to haunt me later on.

Then, not unexpectedly, Germany stabbed. Then Turkey stabbed, very very poorly. The Germans picked up Ireland quickly, as I knew they would. And Turkey was swept back in North Africa, and the Saudi Arabian peninsula fell solidly under Nigerian control. Unfortunately, it became impossible to fight Russia as well and that front was abandoned. Spain switched sides as Germany began advancing. Nigeria made its first declaration that a German solo was inevitable, and sent a congratulatory note to Germany.

At some point after this event, I was fooled into thinking that Gerwald could help me stop a German solo, this was quite clearly not the case, as was evidenced by the last turn, where he all in one turn, turned a very good chance at stopping a German solo, into a certain defeat, effectively throwing what was left of the game.

Spain began to fall slowly, but good Nigerian advice slowed the German advance. Then suddenly, Spain had a build, and built a fleet instead of an army. Had an army been built, Spain (and with it Gibraltar) would have been closed to Germany forever. The game was half lost here. Spain continued to fall. The Turkey-Nigeria front was utterly stalemated, with Turkey weaker than when the war had started.

Finally the last anti-solo coatlition was built. The long fights for Gibraltar began, and the assumption was made that Defiant was competent enough to hold a stalemate line that had developped. This was clearly not the case, but that was ok, because Gibraltar could still be closed with a lot of effort. The fights around Gibraltar went on, but finally Turkey screwed up so horribly all in one turn, that all was lost, and the planned Nigerian moves for the next spring turn were either to proxy all units to Germany, or to attack Tunis with all power. Turkey's paranoid defense of Tunis has cost us the game, and it is my deepest regret now, that I did not take it earlier.

**Defiant** · March 11, 2001, 18:54

Russia's EOG,
I will respond to the rant by Victor in a moment. But first I want to thank Ruffhaus8 for taking over the GM job and keeping this game alive.
I would also like to thank all the other players for making this possible, you know who you are.

This game started out with Russia trying to gain a cooperation from Boshko who was Ukraine against Gerwald in Turkey and Sahib as Poland. Then we had our first major problem right out of the blocks, Italy has NMR'd and caused the game strategy to shift. Then the GM quit and Ruffhaus took over and he asked me if I wanted to resume as the leader of Russia and by this time I was stabbed and being attacked by Ukraine, Turkey and Iran. So I intially told him no, since I was getting munched and I felt the game was already at a disadvantage due to Italy's NMR, but he convinced me to stay in and I did. My only allie Sahib(Poland) and I did a few out maneuvers on Urkaine and Boshko came back and asked if I wanted an alliance against Sahib, I said sure but was going to stab Ukraine but then Sahib has to leave and not knowing the new player I went along with my new Ukrainian alliance and a few NMR's by Iran and now Russia was becoming a powerhouse again, until.............the HUN.

Germany had now left the game and Berzerker to over as head HUN and he did say you better stab me and take my centers right away, well Berzerker being the player that got me started in diplomacy here at Apolyton I gave him some slack and Germany at that time was no powerhouse, virtually on its way out but he was a nice buffer between me and Victor coming up the MAO. Germany started to grow and took over England and working his way south and gained some valuable SC's when IT happened, the STAB. We were supposed to work together against Ukraine and Germany would head south as I would and split the sphere that way. But greedy Victor had wanted some Iranian SC's and I told to get bent, like any normal player is going to let another power get a foothold on my primary land, get real. Anyway I was so tied up with the Nigerian factor that I never saw the STAB coming from the HUN and it literally crippled Russia. As if that wasn't enough, Berzerker said he wanted to leave me alone and now head south and in being in no condition to argue I said sure, but as if he were playing game, he stabbed Russia again. Now it was just retreat and delay the enevitable. I held him for a while but it just became a guessing game and sooner or later he hit one and broke down my defense piece by piece, really nice strategy, no mistakes. I just held out where I could and gave up the land reluctantly.

Congratulations Berzerker to a game excellently played, you deserve it.

As for you Victor, it is easy to critize from the back, you were minimally on the front lines and Gerwald, Shadowstrike and I had to do most of the fighting while you critized. Berzerker kicked your ass out of the Northern Atlantic in record time. Gerwald is an excellent player and I've kicked your ass several times so don't be telling us we are the inferior players until you are put in the same circumstance.

Overall, thank everybody for a good game and I am glad I stayed in it.

**Victor Galis** · March 11, 2001, 19:59

Volga should have never fallen.

Yes, I wanted more than one center from a three way attack on an eight center power... imagine that

It is rather easy to criticize, because you give me ample opportunity to do so.

**SnowFire** · March 11, 2001, 20:19

Just so you know, the ADC site has been updated.

**Defiant** · March 11, 2001, 20:29

Victor, wanting it is one thing but critizing a player for not wanting you to want it, is a joke. Look at the math, volga was destined to fall, it was only a matter of time and guessing.

**Victor Galis** · March 11, 2001, 20:36

I admit the fall of Volga was more of a long term planning issue, than Gerwald's last turn blunder, but...

I am criticizing you not for intent, but for trying to kick me out of Iran and leaving the back door open for Germany. Though Turkey's stab was the bigger blunder. He not only undermined his defensive position, but also lost centers, all at a time when Germany was growing rapidly. My greatest mistake is not catching Spain's last build mistake... none of the others would have mattered if Spain had been kept from the German. +5 centers for us, and Gibraltar closed, the assumption that all the other lines were based on. But enough of this, we will settle it by force of arms in Dip 50, unless you hand over Yut.

**Berzerker** · March 12, 2001, 03:53

First and foremost, thanks Ruffhaus for being GM. It was your leadership as a GM that kept this game going. Second, thanks to the players - Defiant, Victor, Gerwald, and Shadowstrike - for sticking with it to the end, it's quite refreshing to actually play a game that didn't fall apart due to nmr's.

EOG ---

I took over Germany as a permanent sub for Connorkimbro and found myself next to DuChateau (France) as we were both getting munched. He was getting killed off by England, Italy, and Spain, while I was under attack from Ukraine, Poland, and I believe Italy. We were both at 2 or 3 centers each and expecting a quick death so we agreed to try and have some fun with our situation. Unknown to me, England had been somewhat of an ally to Germany, nevertheless, DuChateau and I decided to combine our forces and attack England even as southern enemies were nipping at our heels.

The effect of this sudden attack stunned England giving us control of both the EC and the Nth Sea. Unfortunately for my ally, DuChateau could only help me gain England's centers as Spain and Italy took his homeland. But like a true friend and patriot, he kept only his fleet to further my gains in the Isles before disappearing for good. I had recovered from a weak 3 center Germany about to succumb to eastern enemies to about 8 centers with a weakened England now plagued by a succession of owners. The war of stabs in the east diverted Poland and Ukraine from me and even Italy was now distracted leaving me no enemies to contend with as I finished off England with help from Nigeria in the Isles and Russia in Scandinavia.

I continued my conquest of the Isles eliminating England completely with Victor (Nigeria) delivering the coup de grace (is that right?) by taking Ireland. The preceding year, Defiant (Russia) and I had chased England out of Scandinavia so now all I had were 2 allies in the north with over-extended supply lines (yay) and 3 southern neighbors all looking away from me. Spain had taken most of France with Italy getting the eastern part, but Nigeria stabbed Spain just about the time I attacked Nigeria's centers in Ireland. Italy was under attack from Ukraine and Turkey, so both Spain and Italy allied with me.

Spain and Italy were slowly forced to disband units in France as they lost centers closer to their front lines. This opened up all of France should I want their centers. But I wanted them as allies, great buffers against what seemed like strong alliances that might hold together long enough to cause me problems if Italy and Spain collapsed. So I made sure to let Spain and Italy know I would not take their European centers unless they did in fact collapse. It took alot of convincing backed up by years of support for their causes before they finally left France for me to defend.

Meanwhile, after removing the Nigerians from the N Atlantic, and with Poland eliminated by Ukraine and Russia, I was able to time my stab of Russia's holdings in Sweden and the Baltic with his troubles in the east. Russia had weakened Ukraine with a stab so I was in need of a new enemy, lol. Russia retreated to Finland and it would take time to get enough units up there to continue the advance so I made peace with Defiant telling him I was heading south. There wasn't much he could do, but the loss of a southern center led him to disband a Baltic fleet. So I resumed my advance on his north as Italy and Spain were collapsing. Spain's leader left the game and Shadowstrike joined as a sub. Bad news having to train a new ally so I stabbed Spain taking Bordeaux and Marseilles.

So Spain and Nigeria kissed and made up as Italy gave way to Ukraine and Turkey with me inheriting Italy's French and northern centers. Geez, this is hard to remember! I slowly advanced against Nigeria and Spain while stalemating Ukraine and Turkey in N Italy and resumed my attack on Russia taking Finland and the Baltic.
The rest of the game was just a continued, albeit slow, advance on the Iberian peninsula and in N Russia. I think the key point was when Spain built a fleet in Seville instead of an army. With the latter he might have supported Madrid indefinitely. In Russia, it was a matter of outguessing Defiant whenever a numerical advantage opened up. With the taking of Moldavia, Turkey was now faced with outguessing me too and I guessed right taking Hungary, the writing was on the wall. I was assured of taking 2 more centers from Russia leaving me in need of just 1 center from the Slavic region and a numerical advantage if I guessed right - an inevitable 43rd center and the solo

**Gerwald** · March 12, 2001, 09:49

THIS IS NOT MY EOG. I REPEAT NOT MY EOG.

I watched the Capitals down the Ottawa Senators last night 6-5! What a great game! I watched The Sopranos. What a great show! I just read the EOG by Victor. What a pompous A-Hole. I will respond after I take my fist out of the computer screen and simmer down.

**Defiant** · March 12, 2001, 11:28

Victor,
Dip 50 will be answered at the dip 50 site and there will be an answer this is not the site for out 50 problem, remember no cross gaming, lets go there.

**Gerwald** · March 12, 2001, 22:40

Well. I have calmed down some. First, I would like to thank Ruffhaus for replacing imran as the GM. Second, congratulations to Berzzy for his "solo" victory. Third, well it wasn't always easy to get along with each other; Boshko, Defiant and Victor, but I think we did a capable job of doing ourselves in and allowing Berzzy this cout de ta. Pardon my attempt at French writing.

Now that the nicities are out of the way; I can tell my version of the story.

I was the proud nation of Turkey. Immediately striking up a three-way arrangement with Iran (Hacksaw), Ukraine (Boshko) and Nigeria (Ruffhaus). We went after Italy (Dante) and Egypt (Talon). Italy helped with his Spring NMR, Egypt didn't have much of a chance. Nigeria polished off Algeria and controlled almost all of Africa. I grabbed parts of the former Egyptian empire. Hacksaw became increasingly greedy. I was approached by Russia (Defiant) and saw Iran as my next target. We, Defiant and I, carved Iran a new ******* along with the help of the new Nigeria (Victor). By this time Berzzy had taken control of the floundering Prussians and turned them into the Gauls. He spread like a cancer all along Northern Europe. It didn't help that the only people fighting him were England and Poland. The Ukraine and Russia helped by attacking Italy, Poland and England. Nigeria took the North Atlantic and looked very strong. By this time it appeared that Victor and I had forged a working relationship as strong as Ruff and I had previous. Then things went south. Victor and I (privately) spoke of a two-way draw. We developed the plan and I was gung-ho for the victory. Then he mysteriously began to taunt Defiant and Berzzy on the thread. He claimed that he was going to solo and there was nothing they could do to prevent it. Then he started losing centers in and around England that he should have been able to grab and hold. Who grabbed these centers in his stead? The German. Nigeria was losing power and I was gaining strength in the Balkans and Mediterranean. I was approached by Spain and Germany. They offered me the draw with them. I wasn't exactly happy with Victor's public gloating and saw him eventually targeting my centers in Africa to offset his European losses. I worked with Russia as well and we hit Nigeria in the Spring. We took four centers. Spain though, lost one to Victor. Then, the bottom fell out. Spain quit. The new Spain was quickly approached. I informed him of the plan and offered to support him back into his African center. He decided to not only decline that offer but help Victor against me. The stab was weak; but only because Victor charmed the hell out of Spaniel (Immediately became Nigeria's lap dog)! I still don't know why Spain decided to forfeit his previous plans and not only lose a center to Nigeria; but help Victor (who had been slaughtering the previous Spain) gain more power. Germany immediately pounded Spain. I held Tunisia for the duration of the game. Victor and I continued to war in the Middle East. All the while, Berzzy gained more of the Atlantic. Then Russia started to fall on bad times. We (Victor, Defiant, Boshko and myself) tried to let by gones be by gones. We fought valantly, but alas, through boredom and frustration, made some poor decisions.

Again, thank you Ruff for the GM role.

Congrats, Berzzy for the "solo"

I also don't want to forget the tactical genius who took the leading power (Nigeria had 10 or 12 centers curtousy of Ruff; hid behind a "stalemate line" (that required my fleets to hold) and gained a lofty third place finish. Way to go, Victor! Thanks for coming out! If you want others to respect you, Victor, you need to show others respect.

**Victor Galis** · March 12, 2001, 23:13

I don't seem to recall claiming that I could solo. I did several times congratulate Berzerker on his impending victory, while he was still smaller than me. Yes, that I did. I saw what he was doing, and frankly there wasn't much I could do to stop him. Ireland can't be held through the MAO, when Spain is thoroughly against you, and your fleets are outnumbered. The MAO is a position that can not be forced from the south, a fact that to my greater annoyance, was never fully recognized by either Turkey or Russia. Nigeria is horrible geographically for anything other than dominating Africa and holding it. Contrary to your statements, your fleets are entirely unnecessary to my personal stalemate line, which itself is entirely unneccessary to stop germany from soloing, since it, under optimal conditions can only hold 21 centers (18 if you don't count the ones I couldn't take from you.)

Now, what really pissed me off, and this only happened last turn, was this: you moved F Rom-Lig. Now, that's a move that may look good to you. It keeps Tun, blocks the German fleet's progress, but you forgot what it was that the F Rom was doing in the first place: Holding Tuscany. On the last turn you made it impossible to hold Tuscany. Once Tuscany fell, Venice would fall, and your whole line, otherwise impentrable, would have slowly unravelled, had the game gone on. You probably missed this, and think that I am pissed off at you for some other reason, which I am not. I am only pissed off because of this particular blunder, which effectively ended any chance of stopping Germany. If Germany didn't notice this, I must be overestimating Berzerker quite a bit. I suppose I deserve this for the very little attention I paid to the game in the last few years. We could have probably avoided this if I had spent the time to explain to you, why F Rom was critical to the defense of Venice, but that's all too late now. Just like it was too late, after Shadowstrike built that fleet.

Spain brought this all upon himself. He attacked me, only to get himself kicked out of Morocco, just as you lost centers when you stabbed me. That was a very clumbsy stab as I remarked at the time. Had it been set up for another turn or two, I might have emerged with quite a few less centers. You also seem to neglect that Egypt was still at the height of his power when I took over Nigeria, and I was at 8 centers. Things went very well, until I hit that horrible obstacle that will always plague Nigeria: The Med Sea. This country was not made with the ability to storm that sea, without a very good reason to do so, and an ally. Since Spain was against me, I couldn't force it, nor could I force Spain, until the german stab, when I had no interest to force Spain (perhaps, I failed here. Looking back, there was a slight chance that I could have picked up Andalusia and Gib if I had struck while Spain was falling fast. If I had closed the straights then, we might also not have gotten here.)

**Gerwald** · March 12, 2001, 23:29

Victor, since you wish to claim you know every nuiance of the game, I will fill you in on a small secret. Had you taken the time to read everyone's move orders you would have noticed what Boshko was doing each turn. Supporting my F TUS! Oh, you must not have seen that small matter that had been occurring for twelve straight game turns. I will reiterate again. The stab was weak because of Spain being replaced by your lap dog. You should have had four disbands. Spain sacrificed his country's honor by supporting you back into one of your centers and allowing you to keep the center you had grabbed from his predessor in the Spring. Plus, the move by Spain in the spring was faulty, he should have hurt you more than he did through his own carelessness. That is why he quit and was replaced by Shadowstrike. I can pull the history for you if you care to read for yourself.

**Gerwald** · March 12, 2001, 23:41

Oh, and by the way. Take another long look at the map. If I didn't gain GoL guess where his fleet was going? True, he might have seen the weakness in my line and struck. To be honest though I was ready for this game to end. I suggest before you run that loose yap of yours, that you seriously begin to weigh the ramifications. As far as you needing my fleets. If I had supported Berzzy with my fleets, your brilliant "stalemate line" would have folded rather quickly. I don't think my limited tactical skill will be up to assisting your great intellect in the future. You have a lot of growing up to do little boy.
[This message has been edited by Gerwald (edited March 12, 2001).]

**Victor Galis** · March 13, 2001, 17:38

"I will fill you in on a small secret. Had you taken the time to read everyone's move orders you would have noticed what Boshko was doing each turn. Supporting my F TUS! Oh, you must not have seen that small matter that had been occurring for twelve straight game turns."

-I will fill you in on a little secret of my own. A Ven's support could be cut by a third unit, while a supported attack on Tuscany was made. I analyzed the line quite thoroughly when I explained it to you.

"I will reiterate again. The stab was weak because of Spain being replaced by your lap dog."

-Yeah, your attack on Egypt and Libya was hampered by the lack of Spanish support

"You should have had four disbands."

-Except I could hold off Spain totally, and Germany was starting to attack Spain. You and Defiant of course were too busy to notice that Germany was soloing. Hence I congratulated him on his impending solo.

"Oh, and by the way. Take another long look at the map. If I didn't gain GoL guess where his fleet was going? True, he might have seen the weakness in my line and struck."

-Oh, and F Tys, was just doing such an important job

"To be honest though I was ready for this game to end."

-Well, you could have proxied all of your units to me, or just flat out said that beforehand, rather than screw up royally.

"I suggest before you run that loose yap of yours, that you seriously begin to weigh the ramifications."

-Like what?

"As far as you needing my fleets. If I had supported Berzzy with my fleets, your brilliant "stalemate line" would have folded rather quickly."

-You're missing the whole point. It couldn't have, that's why its called a stalemate line. Sure I dismantled it before the end, but then I wasn't hiding behind it anymore, was I?

"You have a lot of growing up to do little boy."

-And you have a lot of learning to do, fool.

Announcement

Dip 22 Postmodern - End of Game!

Dip 22 Postmodern - End of Game!

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