Tech restrictions in Scenbuilding?

[Alinestra Covelia]

Okay, maybe I have the wrong idea here, but through my jaunts with the RULES.txt file in my few scenarios, I have come across a few techs that seem to be unchangeable. If you tamper with them, such as altering their root techs, then it will cause your Civ2 game to crash.

Tech related crashes I have suffered usually all occur during one of two stages - you initiate diplomacy with another civ and the game then shuts down, or you end your turn and the game shuts down.

Does anybody have, or is anybody able to compile, a definitive guide to which tech slots you can't touch? I think that all the slots with secondary effects (such as Writing, which increases your Demographics literacy score, and Nuclear Power, which increases naval movement by 1) are untouchables, as are the government slots (Democracy, Monarchy, etc).

Does anybody have anything to add to this? How about which slots can or can't be placed to a "no, no" or a once-removed "no, no" requirement?

(Once removed means having a "no, no" tech - which doesn't show up in the game - and then allowing another tech to require the "no, no" tech, which does show up in the game.)

[Exile]

I have played around w/the govt slots on numerous occasions and no lockups ever occurred because of it. I use the Nuclear power tech in just every scenario I design and move it around everywhere. Is your future tech connected to the tree? The only time that tech problems have shut the program down, IME, was because of a tech loop.

Exile
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited January 18, 2001).]

[Panda]

Allie, the only times I've had the game crash on me because of alterations to the tech tree has been due to typing errors for the prerequisites. Something to check.

Other than that you're welcome to e-mail the file to me and I'll take a look at it.

[Henrik]

I've experienced something simmilar, but that was when I was tampering whit the techs which normally has the prerequisites nil,nil.
But other than those "starter techs" I've been able to change just about annything.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Well, I'm using the version of Civ2 that came bundled with Fantastic Worlds, and I do all my scenediting from the Rules.txt, eschewing the ingame editor for being a white elephant and a less-than-manly way of tackling the challenge!

But seriously, several techs I've altered have caused my game to screech to a halt. It MIGHT be because of a tech loop - can anybody elaborate on this for me? If this is the case, then scenediting would be a lot easier and just a matter of carefully preplanning the science tree.

Usually the game halts during diplomacy and/or end of turn. In light of what you've said, I'm beginning to suspect that it's just because that's when the AI factions are trying to sort out what their research priorities are (what to research in cases of end of turn, and what to trade in cases of diplomacy). Would looping the tech tree cause confusion to the AI and therefore crashing?

[kobayashi]

Crashing at the end of a turn is sometimes related to the need for the tech tree to strech from nil to future tech and the Players must be somewhere within that line at all times.

Looping is a situation where the nil to future tech line is broken.

I suspect that crashing during diplomacy is a similar situation where the AI is looking at the tech you have to offer but can't place them in relation to nil and future tech.

[Exile]

Anytime that I have experienced a diplomacy-phase related lockup, it was because of a tech loop or failure of the tech tree to end in Future tech. I have moved basic (nil,nil) techs around in my tech trees and have not experienced problems with this.

Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

[Alinestra Covelia]

Thanks for the input, guys. If I give the player a tech that is a no, no tech, then does that end up placing the tech outside of the tree? I use once removed techs, but do those count as being removed from the tech tree "nil" to "Future"?

[Henrik]

I don't know what sort of scenario you are making, but if you just want to avoid crashes the easiest thing would be to rename future tech and make it available from the begining, let the three work as you want to except for the fact that future tech is a nil,nil thech.

[zyxpsilon]

quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia on 01-19-2001 08:57 AM no, no tech outside of the tree?

Not unless it's "referenced" somewhere else from another -loop-.
Tech flowing must remain coherent and if it happens that one link is broken, path research is blocked consequently leading to game crashes.
NIL-NIL tryouts is an 'easy' way to point at missing refs.

[William Keenan]

If you draw your tech tree you will find that dead ends, loops, and isolated branches will less frequently occur. Most people draw their trees with pencil and paper. I use Corel Draw, but Power Point is almost as good.