Second Front: The Next Generation

[CapTVK]

quote: Originally posted by Captain Nemo on 10-24-2000 11:49 PM I was even thinking of reusing the Battleship after part IV as there is almost no coastal warfare after that time... Does anyone know of any German Naval action in the Channel during the Battle for Normandy? Would it be appropriate to have a few E-Boats or Subs to harass the Channel convoys later in the game? [This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited October 24, 2000).]

To my knowledge there were some German mini submarines active during the battle for Normandy. They were quite ineffective in rough seas, had a limited range and could only fire one or two torpedoes and most. The only advantage these small submarines had was that they were small enough not to be affected by depth charges. A minisub would simply be 'pushed' aside by the shockwave of a depth charge exploding at close range, what it does to the crew is another matter.


Don't have the exact names for these crafts, will have to look it up.

[Jim Winchell]

I think the mines work fine. Sure, after you play the first part a few times you know where most of them are and can sic your planes on them, but I always seem to miss one or two and send a LC of engineers into them at full speed.

If you want to toughen things up, keep mines the way they are but lower the mp of US aircraft during the first event part to keep them off of the coast and barely out of range of the mines on the first turn. That way the LCs will still have to make their way through the mines on the first turn and the AF will have to choose between land targets or hunting down mines on the second turn--it is this way already in the British sector.

[Sten Sture]

*I think some (half) of the mines actually belong to the Kreigmarine civ so they don't get the move bonus.

There were two line ship lost on DDay.

The Norwegian destroyer Svenner was the closest ship to Le Havre. Half a dozen Eboats raced in and torped it - the Svenner broke in half and folded. The HMS Warspite counterfired as the Es released their torps and sank one while the rest fled back to Le Havre. The USS Corry, a destroyer, hit a mine at 0640, while trying to avoid shore gun fire and sank. There were no Uboat sorties - because of Allied air superiority. (all per Ambrose)

Using the Goto function with aircraft and landing craft significantly reduced my mine losses - to just a handful of units.

Maybe the mines could have a small attack value and a large defensive value. If they had a smaller chance of wiping out all of the landing craft, and were difficult for the Airforce to clean-up then maybe that would force us to take our chances with troop losses. Maybe a destroyed after attacking flag. If they had the 2x air, but were slightly weaker than the P51, you would not want to run the risk of severely wounding your planes vs maybe losing a Higgins boat. Say perhaps 1a6d 2h1f with the 2x air flag. Destroyers & Crusiers could take them out offensively, but that would leave them vulnerable to the shore guns. If they had those stats, I would take out a couple with P47s on turn one, sacrafice a destroyer or two to clear a lane and take my chances with the rest. If placed correctly this might also force the player to land infantry or risk losing all units if the Higgins gets sunk.

A combination of this sort of mine with one set of shore shells that were weak, low cost and shorter ranged - provides an interesting dilema. Weaker shells that could wound the landing parties but sink Higgins boats (more expensive to attract hits) would make the player choose between staying away from the short range guns, but in range of the mines, or getting the hell off the boats and land at the beaches and take the chance that some infantry will survive. A slightly higher cost Higgins boat to attract some shore guns would also weaken a Higgins escort formation from protecting the LCTs.
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited October 25, 2000).]

[Captain Nemo]

I tested the visible mines with 1m,20a,80d,5f,5h... Only made 18 of them all Kreigsmarine to make sure they would only move 1. Since they are visible and only move 1 you can always avoid them but they chase your ships all over the coast and disrupt the protective formations and "lines" of LCVPs. They are destroyed after attack so the most damage they can cause is 18 attacks... they are disbanded by the end of D-Day but I haven't seen if that works (Made them obsolete with Phi tech on turn 8). The other way is to tie them to city/bunkers on the shore so they all get canned as the Allies destroy the shore batteries.

This new version seems a lot more difficult than the last go around. Rangers, Commandos and Airborne are VERY useful in breaking into the beaches but I am not sure I can get through D-Day myself... May need Xin Yu's expertise here... In two attempts I still am hopelessly stuck fighting for those nasty bunkers and unable to secure a continuous beach... Omaha is still a bloodbath and can't easily be bypassed as in the last version. Very historical in that regard. I am not trying to make this impossible, just making sure players really feel great once they kick the AI's butt!

[Shadowstrike]

This may be a bit late, but I have an idea with the mines. Basically, give them to the Kriegsmarine, and make them allied to the Air Force. Then, take away the Kreigsmarine's cities from the beachheads.

This prevents:

a) Aircraft from destroying the mines
b) Aircraft attacking fortified positions

Just my two cents...


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