Barbarian Cities

[William Keenan]

Nice idea Miner, but it will not work. There is no TriggerCity that can be referenced in the BestowImprovement command.

On second thought, it might work but only for the Barbarians if the InCapital clause was used with the BestowImprovement. I think each Barbarian city acts like an individual civ. I'll try it when I have some time.

[Black Dragon]

Funny. I turned on cheat mode and had no problems with bringing palaces in barbarian cities.

[Kull]

BD: I assume you are running FW, not MGE? If you ARE using FW, then for some reason you and Allard are able to change production in Barbarian Cities (see my 10/16 post above). All I know is that I (and others) can't. Does ANYONE have a clue as to why?????

Hendrik: That's is a REALLY good idea! Unfortunately, I'd hate to eliminate city bribery from the scenario altogether.

Barbarian "Storms": I've got a cruise-missile type barbarian unit called "Storm" in my upcoming scenario. It works fine when created over land, and searches around for units/cities to hit. But the ones created over water just sit there. Anyone ever see this before? By the way, if you're thinking of creating similar units, the movement points CANNOT exceed 31 (or they refuse to move!). I have no idea why. I've also noticed that barbarian ships won't even appear in water (they can be created in a city), so maybe it's related.

Barbarian Diplomats: Hendrik's idea for eliminating city bribing got me thinking....what about placing diplomats INSIDE the Barbarian Cities? Sad to say, I tried 3 different approaches (Barbarian spies, diplomats, and regular units with a "6" Role.), but none of them prevented my diplomat from bribing the city. In fact, it didn't work for non-Barbarian cities either. Oh well.

Barbarian Government: As long we're "blue-skying".... ...If it were possible to give the Barbarians a "Democratic" Government style, that would also eliminate bribing. Has anyone ever experimented with something like this?

[Miner]

For Kull, taken from the ToT readme:

19. In the Fantasy, Science Fiction and Midgard game types you may no longer bribe (incite a revolt in) barbarian cities if there is an unbribable barbarian unit in that city.

Therefore if you create a scenario based one of these games you can have unbribeable barbie cities. Another reason to use ToT!

[Allard HS]

The $64 question is how come Allard can do it with FW, but others can't? I don't doubt his word, but wonder what's different about his installation

A thread from long ago, but I didn't notice it earlier. Why I can change it? To be honest I have no idea; i just can. it never crashes. I use FW. I bought it in Holland but it should be the same as in the UK and the rest of Europe.

[Civfan]

I believe I've done it before but how, I'm not to sure. I remember messing around with the reveal map in the cheat mode. I was actually able to move the Barbarian units. I revealed the Barbarian map and entered a new turn. That new turn ended up being the barbarians. I've done this once but I have failed dublicating it. I was also able to change the production of the units which were being built. Some units were NIL and it built those.

[Kull]

Bump (for Benedetti)

[BeBMan]

Kull, perhaps this helps:
Turn on cheat mode > reveal map >BARBARIAN only. After that, I was able to change the production of barbarian cities. I created city walls with the cheat option, it works fine. But it CRASHED if I revealed the ENTIRE MAP.
I have installed only civ2 and FW, not the first addon CD (conflicts...?).
Note that I had another problem with the Barbs: after changing the production of a Barb-city, this city was NOT producing Barb-units any longer. I solved this with events that created the units directly in the cities.

[Civfan]

I think this has been answered already here but if not, here it is. Preventing barb cities from being bribed just build palaces. To do this you change the preq of palaces to nil. reveal barb maps as said in brebro posts and follow his sugguestions.

wait, maybe thats why. After you reveal the barbarian map, you can now change the barb productions even if the entire map is revealed. reveal barb map first, then reveal any other map and it should work. gotta try it out.

p.s.

I've only had it crashed once when changing the production of barbarian cities. I think it crashes because theres nothing for it to build. Might make some units with preq nil and improvements nil and it won't crash.
[This message has been edited by Civfan (edited May 19, 2000).]

[Harlan]

Civfan has hit it on the head with his last speculation here. Looking at the barbarian production queue crashes the game when there isn't at least one unit for the barbarians to build (even if they can build some buildings). So you need at least one unit with "nil,nil" as prereqs. There may be other factors, like which map you're viewing, but I've never had any problem with that.

As far as having an eighth civ, the only way to do that I've heard of is to have the human play as the barbarians. This can be done by editing the hex file. I've never done it myself, but I'm told it has some very strange effects, since the barbarian rules are still followed. For instance, you can't research anything, or even build anything if you control over 8 cities.

With all the new discoveries people are making in hex editing these days, I wonder if making the barbarians a Democracy to prevent bribing would work?

[Allard HS]

Yes, Harlan, that does indeed work!

Change byte 8FB in any pre-ToT saved game to 06, and you've got a barbaric civ with Democracy.

What's nice is, if you have no other civs with Democracy, that it gives a pop-up message saying "cities under democracy cannot be incited to revolt" which can be changed to something appropriate.

However, I'm not sure if the barbarians are able to change government. If they can, it is assumable that they do not follow the "forbid government" switching, which might cause them after all to go back to Despotism.

[St Leo]

By the way, if you're thinking of creating similar units, the movement points CANNOT exceed 31 (or they refuse to move!)

Actually they cannot exceed 127/road modifier.

[Kull]

Thanks guys...this is some REALLY excellent stuff! Everytime I tune in to this forum there's a new "must-implement" piece of information! I am NEVER going to finish the @#$#$% scenario!!!!

[Kull]

Well, one out of two aint bad. The Palace building still doesn't work. Even with Palaces and Units at nil,nil, it still crashes.

However, the Hex Edit trick works great! I took the scenario through a 130-turn test drive, and the Barbarians stayed as a Democracy the whole time. It's really a far more elegant solution than the Palace trick anyway, since it prevents you from bribing newly captured Barbarian cities, plus you can't buy off individual barbarian units. And the customized message is a neat idea, Allard! Closer and closer......