Web-site

[heardie]

The new web-site is up at http://civ.sourceforge.net

Tell us what you think.

[RonHiler]

Is the link right? I'm getting a 404 error

Ron

[The Joker]

Ron:

Yeah, you're right. The right link is civ3.sourceforge.net.


Heardie:

The site looks great!

But I think that we should pay a little more attention to what is actually written in the text. On the front page, for examble, it is written that we have not yet decided the name for the project. This is a leftover from when we were called OC3. Now it is not needed.

And many, many places on the site there is still used the name OC3 or OSC. This gives the site a really unprofessional look, despite the great design. I know that it is not a very important thing, but it should be changed.

I also think that we should use the official abbrevation GGS in stead of GGS:ToC. The latter is a bit too long to work as a proper abbrevation.

This is what I think should be written on the website:

FRONT PAGE:


Welcome:

Welcome to the offical website for Guns, Germs & Steel: Tools Of Conquest. If you are unsure what this project is about, than read on. GGS is an ambitious attemt to create the ultimate civ style game. We are not trying to create a clone. All the basic features of the game are original. Our main inspiration is of cause Civilization and Civ2, but we are creating an entirely new game. The project is run via the internet, and our members come from all across the globe. It is a completely open source project, and is completely free to play.

How to joing GGS:

Do you have general interst in Civ-like games? Want to be a part in making one? Then join the discussion at our forums [link] at Apolyton.net. [NOTE: Since we haven't had any meetings at undernet for a long time I really find that part unneccecary]

New released:

Important news about the project: The name has chaged from OpenCiv3 to Guns, Germs & Steel: Tools of Conquest. The new name is a result of the current forum topic OpenCiv3 - The title. You can read here why this title is chosen...

The new 'official' abbreviation of the new name is GGS. The new website address will probably be www.gunsgermsandsteel.com.

Latest updates:

1.10.00
The new website design has been uploaded to our official website.


NEWS:

If we are to have this part we should propably include something in it, in stead of just telling people that no news archive is available. Don't we have a newsarchive?


CONTACT US:

[NOTE: Do we check the sourceforge mails? I am just saying this to avoid anyboy mailing to us without getting a reply. Change GGS:ToC to GGS and this part is great.]


FORUM:

I think it might be a bit confusing to have this link take you directly to the forum, since the forum is off our site. In stead why not have a page telling you that our forum, where the game design is being made, is located at Apolyton, and then provide a link to that?


FAQ:

[again this part says OpenCiv in stead of GGS]

1: What is this GGS about?
GGS is an attempt to create the ultimate civ game. We are using some of the general ideas from Civ and Civ2 but our game will be completely unique.

2: Who is making this game? And who can join it?
The answer to this is simple: anyone, and everyone. We need people, and we want people. Our team is made up of a core team of a few members [how many?], who are dedicated to the development of the game, and spends time developing all aspects of the game design, and a much larger amount of people, who post on a less regular basis, and who mostly posts individual ideas for the game. You could say that all team members posts ideas on how the game should work, but it is mainly the core that spends time implementing these ideas, and makes them interact with each other. But don't think that there is any clear difference between the core and the other members. People move in and out of the core as they want, and are welcome to do so. Generally as a team member you can do as much or as little as you want to. It is up to you. If you want to just let us know of some idea you would like in the game, then just post it in the forum [link] and we will listen to you. And if you want to spend a lot of time developing the game then you are more than welcome. To join you don't have to sign up anywhere. Just post an idea at our forum.

3. What is the current status of the game?
The game is currently in design mode. A lot has been decided about the game, and the first code has just started to appear, which you can find in the programming section. But this is still early in the history of GGS. We started back in March, so it is still very possible for all developers to have a large impact on the game.

4. Anychance of a demo soon?
I can't answer this myself, but within 1-2 months a demo should be out which may be playable; albeit very basic. You can actually download a demo of the tile system, also in the programming section. [NOTE: Since we are not really near a demo, and since the we a currently focusing on other things in the design than the creation of a simple demo, I am not sure what to answer here. It is not good PR to promise a demo soon for months and months.]

5. What is the deal with the Open Source Idea behind the project?
The idea is you can take the source code, look at it and change it modify it, do whatever you want to it, and if it is better than the original than it will get used in the game. It also means that anybody can participate in the development of the game.

6. What is your goal?
To make excellent game while having fun doing it and not sacrifying upgradebility and quality. We are trying to show a much greater historical accuracy and more features than Civ2, but we will not sacrifice gameplay for anything.

7., 8., 9., 10 and 11. are good as they are.

12. What guidelines should people involved follow?
First get informed about the current state of the project via the web site, and try to read some of the discussions at the forum [link]. Be prepared to explain ideas in great detail. Be prepared to conversate and explain via the forums. The best results comes from discussing ideas with other people. Be patient as you will communicate with non-native english speakers.

[NOTE: I think that the former answer to # 12. was too intimidating for people who might want to join the project. I know that we should follow these guidelines, but if people just have one idea that they want us to know about they might very well get frightened from reading on and on about how they have to read 500 pages of List and considering hardware implications. People could start out as designers lightly - this also means that we should be friendly and not hostile to newcomers at the forum - and then when they know us all and are aware of most aspects of the project we can always let them know step by step that we should consider lots of things when designing the game. It is not like we should keep it a secret to them or anything, it is just that there is no reason for them to get bombarded with infomation right from the beginning.

13. What features are you focusing on?
We are trying to make the game more historically accurate, go into greater detail and include more features than Civ2. But this will never happen if the cost will be less addictive gameplay. We are trying to create a game that will be very unlike ones played before. It will be as much a historical simulation as a turn based strategy game. We are also trying to make the game history more dynamic than Civ2 history. The game should be thrilling and fun from beginning to end.

[BTW: below the list of questions and above the answers on this page there is three lines saying Everyone, Designers and Programmers, and below these are a picture that I could not download. This section doesn't include any links, so what is it really about???]


SCREENSHOTS:

Obviously this is great as it is.


PROGRAMMING:

There is no point in having a good design plan if you don't also have a good programming plan. We are programming GGS n c++. At the moment there are 4 active programmers.

So if you are looking to join the team, or just interested then feel free to read on.

GGS Architecture
Naming Conventions
AI
Manager Role
Design Plan

Architecture:

At the top of this page there is another mentioning of OC3. This should be changed to GGS. Otherwise it is cool.

The same for Naming Conventions and AI.


ART:

Nice pictures!


MODELS:

This seems great too. Hopefully we will soon be able to include pop and econ models too! And what about a map model? Don't we have a working map design doc?


DOWNLOAD:

Cool!


SEARCH:

Ehhh, I don't really like this. I tryed searching for disease, and not only did it take me to some other site, it also found no results .


LINKS:

I would include also links to the websites of our fellow revolutionary civ game teams Clash and MD. And a link the Apolyton, both to the list of forums and to the Apolyton front page. Possibly also include a link to Firaxis and Activision, to show a little about the competition.


Also, what about that Design Doc thingy? It seemed really great (if the link to CNN can be removed), so it should be at our website. Of cause it needs to be finished first.

OK, I'm done now.

I promised that I would pay to register the gunsgermsandsteel.com domain, and I will. But before I do so I think we should decide where our website should be located. Could we use Elmo's serverspace or what?

And we should have our own forum at Apolyton. We should mail Dan to ask if we could get it. We should also have an introduction thread, so newcomers can check that one out when first coming to the forum. This will help make newcomers feel welcome right from the start, without feeling like having to butt in on some longgoing discussion.

------------------
"It is only when we have lost everything
that we are free to do anything."
- Fight Club

[RonHiler]

Ah, there it is

I like the overall design, in general it is very easy to navigate and read through. The logo is very well done, whoever did that has some great artistic talent!

I give the whole thing a thumbs up I have a few small quibbles, nothing major...

Okay, here are my suggestions:

1) Change servers. Whatever server you are currently on, it is slow. Perhaps it is just having a bad day, but keep an eye on it, though. If it really is just a general server problem, you wouldn't want to download a demo from it, and it could turn people away. Something to keep in mind.

2) In my resolution (1024x768) there is a huge white blank column to the right, about a third of the screen. Is there any way to increase the size of the news column to account for higher resolutions? You're front page news is already pretty crowded (which makes it a little difficult to read), and all that wasted space doesn't help.

3) The FAQ desperately needs to be reformated. It's almost impossible to read as is. At the least, you should make the question headers bold (within the body of the FAQ), and maybe even up their font size a little. Also, put a blank space between question headers. I'd also suggest, for the whole FAQ, losing the center tag, and just make them right justified. Multiple line centered text is hard to read.

Okay, that's it, I think everything else is in very good shape. Looks good so far guys.

Ron

[The Joker]

Thanks for the comments, Ron. It is great that you are this helpful.

But anyway, I really think it is about time we get our own forum here at Apolyton. Should I send a mail to Dan asking him if we could get it? We already rule this forum, so it wouldn't be much of a change.

------------------
"It is only when we have lost everything
that we are free to do anything."
- Fight Club

[amjayee]

I think I don't have any other comments about the page Joker and Ron didn't say already. It's looking good, but if the corrections proposed are made, it will be better.

The server is truly a bit slow. Has it always been that way? About FAQ, Ron is right, it's quite difficult to read.

About our own forum, I agree we really could use one. I once mailed DanQ and asked for an own forum, since we had taken over alternative civs forum. He said, that since we already have the alt-civs forum as our own, where is the problem... I think the problem is, that it's not completely ours, and it doesn't have our name on it. At least we should get alt.civs named to Guns, Germs and Steel. Could you Joker mail Dan, or should I?
[This message has been edited by amjayee (edited October 02, 2000).]

[The Joker]

I could do it.

Is there anything in particular that I should say?

------------------
"It is only when we have lost everything
that we are free to do anything."
- Fight Club

"It is ok to show horrific violence
as long as noboby says any naughty words."
- South Park

[heardie]

Thanks for the (constructive) critism guys. I have saved the page and will try and fix all the errors. Basically the Openciv3 and all the other error's came becuase I simply copied all the info across, from the old site. Luckily Dreamweaver can search whole sites and make changes in about 1 sec. I love computers....

[RonHiler]

quote: Originally posted by amjayee on 10-02-2000 03:17 AM About our own forum, I agree we really could use one. [...] At least we should get alt.civs named to Guns, Germs and Steel. Could you Joker mail Dan, or should I?

Errr, guys? I for one would definitely consider that a bad idea, and more than a little bit insensitive to the needs of others. While it is certainly true you have the bulk of the alt-civ forum, simply renaming it as a GGS forum would remove usage for me and any other game in the alt-civ section! Now, it's no big deal for me, MD has its own Usenet group, which is our main forum for discussion, so having this one is not critical for us. But others in the alt-civ section (perhaps future inducties?) may want to post stuff on Apolyton-Civ from time to time, and your proposal would remove their access altogether.

The Alt-Civ section needs it's own forum, or there really isn't any reason for the section to exist.

If you want your own forum, I have no particular problem with that, if Dan is willing to set it up for you, all the more power to ya. But don't attempt to steal this one to get it done, huh?

(Don't take any offense, but in my personal opinion, it's too early in your development cycle for you guys to warrent a seperate forum. Considering some 98% of independent games started never see the light of day (vaporware), if it were me, I would need to see more concrete progress (ie a running pre-alpha at least) before I was willing to put in the time and effort of setting up a new forum. I know you guys are serious, don't get me wrong, and I'm really hoping your project will be fruitfull, but I've seen a lot of independent projects die that were under the control of people I also thought were very serious, most further along than yours is now. Ancient Prophecy is a great example. But anyway, that's just me, and fortunately for you guys, I'm not in any way in control of dishing out forums, so maybe Dan and Markos feel differently, and you guys can just tell me to shut up Have you considered setting up your own forum board on your site? Free ones exist. MD had one before we went to a newsgroup. Just a thought.)

Ron

[The Joker]

Ron:

No no!

Don't think that we would just want to have the alternative civs forum removed. Not at all. It is just that we, as were are using most of this one, would find it easier to simply rename this forum to the GGS forum, and then move all the threads not related to us to a new forum, and name that the alternative civs forum.

It would just be easier, as it would mean moving maybe 5 or 6 threads, in stead of moving 30 or 40, if all of the GGS related stuff is to be moved to a new forum.

I completely agree that there needs to be an alternative civs forum. But I feel that our project is slowly moving out of the basement (so to speak), and it would be nice, also for PR reasons, to have our own forum, so people will know where we are.

I don't really like the idea of us creating our own forum at our website. To me this is the ultimate civ related site on the net, and therefor also the site where the most civ interested people hang out. Therefor to keep in contact with as many people (potential gamers and team members especcially) I think that we should keep our forum located here. This is supposed to be an open project, and if that is to work we can't just isolate ourselves at our website. We need to be in contact with the civ community always.

------------------
"It is only when we have lost everything
that we are free to do anything."
- Fight Club

"It is ok to show horrific violence
as long as noboby says any naughty words."
- South Park

[heardie]

Website
---------

Okay Joker, that seems to be done, except for the forum page, because I couldn't be bothered changing all
the links at the momment.

About the search page, it didn't work, because it still is searching through the old content, it
just needs to be re-indexed. which I am doing, and then i need to update it's html, so that will be
up in a few days

[The Joker]

Looks really great heardie!

Just a few minor things that should be changed to make it perfect:

- At the FAQ in the answer to question 11 line 2 the word forum is written, and afterwards I have written [link]. All that should be done is to make the word forum a link to the forum and remove the word link from the text.

- At the Links page we should addlinks to Firaxis (Civ3), Activision (CTP2), MD and Clash.

- Below the Sourceforge link at the left section of the site (which, BTW, should contain a link to Sourceforge in stead of just being a picture) I think we should include a link to Apolyton, as the one found here (either the left or the right at the top row).

Apart from these details it all looks really, really good.

------------------
"It is only when we have lost everything
that we are free to do anything."
- Fight Club

"It is ok to show horrific violence
as long as noboby says any naughty words."
- South Park

[RonHiler]

Ah, okay. As long as you're not stealing this forum, that's cool

The page looks great, Heardie. Excellent work. The FAQ is much better. I'd still maybe bold the question headers within the body of the FAQ itself, but now I'm just nitpicking, so you can ignore me if you wish.

Ron

[ElmoTheElk]

Wow! Finally able to post again on Apolyton. I see that my co-webdesinger has done a whole lot of work! Good job.

Personnaly I have some aditional things I want to change. The canaon in the logo is not the best quality I have ever seen. I already have another canon (heardie used it for the opening screen) and I will try this one.

I made my own opening screen, but the harddisk partition where it was on has became unformatted in win2000 (not in partition magic though, all the data should be there.) I am trying to recover this, but without any succes so far :-(

(Damn linux installer!)

'till later.

[The Joker]

So, why were you unable to post here, Elmo? Did you lose your password like I did?

Either way, it's good to hear from you again.

------------------
"I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. [b]Everyone[b]
listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."
- Homer J. Simpson