AI improvement via non-SLIC

[Alpha Wolf]

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian on 02-06-2001 11:30 AM I've noticed that the AI did not place a high priority on building Trading Posts. I normally build a lot of them, so I do well economically. Adding a production boost only helps me out further. I remember this being an issue in the MedMod for CTP1. Wes added mines to be built in forests, but the AI seemed incapable of building them.

That'll be a major downer if thats still true. I'll test it tonight (i hope).

quote: There's a tile impovement build list in the default game that only has the basic elements; Farm, Mine and so forth. Shouldn't that list be filled out with all of the tile improvements? I was looking at that list earlier, and it seem a little thin. I believe that there weren't even any of the Net improvememts on that list, but the AI seemed to have no trouble building nets so I didn't do anything with it.

I thought the lack of nets was strange too. Got me to thinking whether tile improvements might be hard coded into the program.

quote: And with the edit you made to the BuildingBuildList.txt file is there any other file you need to edit so the AI will use that sequence? (Dumb question, I'm sure, but I'm still learning...)

I havent had a chance to play since I made the changes but it loads ok so it should be just those files.

BTW, no such thing as a dumb question if you learned something useful

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History is written by the victor.

[Alpha Wolf]

Success!!! The AIs were surrounded by trading posts on their mountains. Hmmm, maybe I should but trading post first in the build list so it'll build mines (assuming that the list means top has lower priority). Between that and them building bazaars, I'm way behind in gold and science now

On a new note, you might need to lower the war discontent. I had to build a fairly good sized army to defend against the barbs, and all my cities were extremely unhappy about it. Aint that typical, ya build an army to protect them and they complain...ungrateful cretins I'm assuming that the AI is similiarly afflicted.

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History is written by the victor.

[hexagonian]

Sounding good.

I tried to link up to your site, but its not active anymore.

Got a favor to ask. Could you send me the files that you altered for the trading post fix.(or did you just enter trading posts into the BuildImprovement list - if so, then don't bother. The boost for production is an easy enough fix - as long as I can get the AI to use them I will make that boost too.

And the BuildingBuildList file for the City Improvement sequence (or at least the entry) I want to make sure I have the verbage correct.

I would guess that the lists work in descending order, as the more advancesd stuff is at the bottom of the lists, so placing trading posts before mines might make the AI bypass building them to build mines instead.

Would you also be interested in taking on the challenge of boosting the AI for my Cradle Mod. I have been implementing stuff as I see it on the forums, and your tips have been very good. This mod is currently being playtested, with generally good reports, but it definitely needs tweaking in some areas. As I see it, you have a wealth of practical knowledge with your experimenting, and a look at my files would be much appreciated, to catch some changes that definitely need to be made.

My initial goal has been to implement improvements outside of Slic (as I have no ability in that area)

I have sent version 1.02 to OmniGods website, and can email you the text files to look at too, if you are interested.

All work will be credited in the public release.
[This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited February 07, 2001).]

[Alpha Wolf]

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian on 02-07-2001 09:52 AM I tried to link up to your site, but its not active anymore.

I was one of those that had something happen to my account the other night, and it was pointing to the wrong place (notice my new settler status ) I'm trying to get the link to work again but so far no luck.

quote: Got a favor to ask. Could you send me the files that you altered for the trading post fix.(or did you just enter trading posts into the BuildImprovement list - if so, then don't bother. The boost for production is an easy enough fix - as long as I can get the AI to use them I will make that boost too. And the BuildingBuildList file for the City Improvement sequence (or at least the entry) I want to make sure I have the verbage correct.

ImprovementList:
IMPROVEMENT_LIST_PRODUCTION {
Improvement TILEIMP_TRADING_POST ## JAW
Improvement TILEIMP_MINES
}
-----------------------
BuildingBuildList.txt:
add 1 to the number at the start of the file.

BUILDING_BUILD_LIST_START {
Building IMPROVE_CITY_WALLS
Building IMPROVE_GRANARY
Building IMPROVE_BAZAAR
Building IMPROVE_ACADEMY
Building IMPROVE_MILL
Building IMPROVE_FACTORY
}

quote: Would you also be interested in taking on the challenge of boosting the AI for my Cradle Mod. I have been implementing stuff as I see it on the forums, and your tips have been very good. This mod is currently being playtested, with generally good reports, but it definitely needs tweaking in some areas. As I see it, you have a wealth of practical knowledge with your experimenting, and a look at my files would be much appreciated, to catch some changes that definitely need to be made.

I'll gladly take a look at them, but it wont be until next week as this weekend I go to get firsthand knowledge of barbarians, i mean cheeseheads, ooops, I mean Wisconsinites

quote: My initial goal has been to implement improvements outside of Slic (as I have no ability in that area)

I dont blame you on this. Every attempt of mine to code SLIC fails on my PC even tho I've been assured the same code works on other machines.


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History is written by the victor.
[This message has been edited by Alpha Wolf (edited February 07, 2001).]

[Alpha Wolf]

FTP site is functional again...dang case sensitivity

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History is written by the victor.

[hexagonian]

Thanks - Make sure you read the posts about the Mod to get an idea what is happening.

[Alpha Wolf]

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian on 02-08-2001 09:53 AM Thanks - Make sure you read the posts about the Mod to get an idea what is happening.

Will do

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History is written by the victor.

[hexagonian]

Hey, have a good trip...

Don't hit any deer, or my brother-in-law!

[Howie]

I rarely post, but I have not seen this issue addressed, or I may have missed it.

I have followed the slic and non-slic AI improvments and have toyed myself. One of the main complaints I see repeatedly is that the human player makes gains and eventually "turns the corner" in the 1st century or so and then the game is boring. I have not seemed to encounter this. If fact, if anyone is "turning the corner" it is the AI that is wiping me off the planet.

Here are examples of setting in DiffDB from Alpha.

Beginner=
# % amount to multiply production cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
AI_MAX_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.7 0.7 0.8 0.8 0.9

Impossible=
# % amount to multiply production cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.7 0.7 0.7 0.7 0.7 ## JAW
AI_MAX_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.25 0.3 0.35 0.4 0.5 ## JAW

Obviously, smaller numbers benefit the AI as seen between "Beginner" and "Impossible" levels.

The same logic goes for the scaled bonuses over the ages. So why is everyone scaling the values to DECREASE the AI's bonuses as the game progresses. The reason the AI is falling behind is because the human is gaining while the scaled bonuses for the AI are DECREASING!

I have scaled my bonuses in the DiffDB as well, but in the REVERSE direction. My AI gets TOUGHER as the game goes on, making "Impossible" level live up to it's name.

Has this been covered before? Am I missing something?

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-- Red Eyed Civer (Dooh! It's 4:30AM again!)

[hexagonian]

It was my assumption that the settings were based on how much something costs for the AI - A lower setting (say 0.7) means that the cost of an item is only 70% to the AI as it is to the human player.

Alpha - any input on this, especially if the AI generally dies out after a certain period of time, based on ranking?

Howie
Could you post your settings?

[Alpha Wolf]

quote: Originally posted by Howie on 02-13-2001 11:49 AM I rarely post, but I have not seen this issue addressed, or I may have missed it. I have followed the slic and non-slic AI improvments and have toyed myself. One of the main complaints I see repeatedly is that the human player makes gains and eventually "turns the corner" in the 1st century or so and then the game is boring. I have not seemed to encounter this. If fact, if anyone is "turning the corner" it is the AI that is wiping me off the planet. Here are examples of setting in DiffDB from Alpha. Beginner= # % amount to multiply production cost by per age for ai AI_MIN_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 AI_MAX_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.7 0.7 0.8 0.8 0.9 Impossible= # % amount to multiply production cost by per age for ai AI_MIN_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.7 0.7 0.7 0.7 0.7 ## JAW AI_MAX_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.25 0.3 0.35 0.4 0.5 ## JAW Obviously, smaller numbers benefit the AI as seen between "Beginner" and "Impossible" levels. The same logic goes for the scaled bonuses over the ages. So why is everyone scaling the values to DECREASE the AI's bonuses as the game progresses. The reason the AI is falling behind is because the human is gaining while the scaled bonuses for the AI are DECREASING! I have scaled my bonuses in the DiffDB as well, but in the REVERSE direction. My AI gets TOUGHER as the game goes on, making "Impossible" level live up to it's name. Has this been covered before? Am I missing something?

I'd be interested in seeing what numbers you use also. There was a thread awhiles ago that talked about these numbers. I went by the concepts there and changed the numbers until I achieved my goals of the AI always outproducing me, and it seems to catch up when behind, and its hard for me to catch up science wise. The last game I played is on 1700 and I'm behind by 4-6 advances, and havent been able to catch up. We all have about the same number of cities, so I achieved my goal but that doesnt mean I'm using the the most efficient numbers. So much of moding is nothing but trial and error.

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History is written by the victor.