Announcement

**polarnomad** · July 4, 2007, 02:34

Treasury 180G +20/turn. At 100% research, -14G/turn. At 90%, -8G/turn. Tech options and research times at 100% and 90% respectively:

Machinery: 24/30
Horse: 8/10
Poly: 4/5
Priest: 3/3
Drama: 11/13
Sailing: 4/5
Math: 9/11

**Kloreep** · July 4, 2007, 07:54

It seems to me like Drama would be a decent option if we do want to research something. Theatres are faster for us Creative types, right?

On the workboat issue: let's remember that we cannot enter their territory under the Open Border treaty (without their permission). And once we declare war, it seems somewhat suspect to me to use the war declaration on the Horde's behalf as an excuse for our non-hired units to ignore their borders. It would be annoying not to be able to send it Sarantine way, but unless we can do it without entering their borders, I think we should respect their territorial integrity and send the workboat elsewhere.

**Kloreep** · July 4, 2007, 07:58

Suggest we 2-pop rush Lima as soon as that becomes possible, as UnO suggested in the previous turnthread. Working the two food-heavy tiles, it should be able to grow back to pop 3 quickly, especially since the food box will be a little smaller with two less pop.

**UnOrthOdOx** · July 4, 2007, 10:37

copying here as well as the horde contact thread.

Greetings Team Horde.

When the save arrives, you will find 4 units that have been hired by Team Sarantium. These have been renamed to clearly indicate them as being hired.

Please understand this was an existing arrangement, and never had a bearing on the units being hired to you. They will be delivered in full as agreed upon.

Speaking of units you've hired...

Your units are assembled, and will move out onto the tile 8 of your scout next turn. (unless the Sarantium Archer blocks that tile, which would force us to wait a turn due to the open border deal with them) They will at that time be renamed to clearly indicate their status as Horde-hired units.

If possible, we would like you to send HBR this turn. We understand the deal was "when delivered", and a settler on completion, but due to current circumstances, it will be quite impossible to adhere to that due to turn order, and we are a bit nervous about doing such a large contract on credit.

Once the contract begins, we will provide a screenshot and ask for directions each turn, and provide you with the battle log. If you wish to give general orders (sack town, etc) for us to carry out, we will do so by the most expedient means as well.

-UnOrthOdOx
Team Merc Representative

**UnOrthOdOx** · July 4, 2007, 22:36

Hi Uno,

Congratulations on your contract with Sarantium. I am sure they will put your units to good use.

I am, however, a bit perplexed at how this came about. We were waiting for you to get back to us from the following:

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
There is a possibility that we allow for "do not attack us for x turns" contracts, yes.
PLATO says:
Ahhh...Interesting. And what is the asking price for these?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
superb question. lol
PLATO says:
hehe...Get back with me on that one. Classify us as “interested” on that contract.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
given the current state of the local diplomatic situation, it's probably fairly high right now.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Had you asked before the current situation, probably a lot less.
PLATO says:
Haha...I can imagine. Of course we would be interested in the multi-contract discount as well.

I guess we are to assume that there are no contract discussions that are meaningful unless an actual agreement is made then and there.

If you will think about real life...If I was discussing a contract with your company and said I would get back to them on price and the next communication was that I had just made a deal with their number one competitor, how long do you think I would be in business?

The right thing to do is to cancel your Sarantium contract until we can conclude our ongoing talks...we are still waiting on your price.
It will be interesting to see what the mercenary response is and weather or not your concept of an impartial and fair organization will work or not.

Just let me know when you can!

Thanks,

PLATO

**UnOrthOdOx** · July 4, 2007, 22:57

Well, if you're worried about 'who came first'.

Sarantium wished to hire these units more than 10 turns ago. Prior to any discussions with Team Horde beyond the possibilty of ending hostilities. They were told they must wait for us to honor the in game cooling off period, prior to it being initiated, in fact, but we had a verbal agreement that didn't specifically state we had to declare in-game peace. Even so, we made them wait.

So, in truth, you are incorrect. Sarantium hired us first in this little scenario. Yes, it is possible for us to agree to a no-attack contract. In your case, at this time, no it is not possible. We cannot and will not break the Sarantium contract no matter how much you would give us. Now, for reasons of confidentiality to Sarantium, we could not disclose this until now. Pricing on such a thing will be determined on a case by case basis. For you, now, it would technically be possible in 11 turns time, when our contract with Sarantium is finished. If you are interested in a price for it at that time, we can discuss that.

So, to recap:

Sarantium hired 4 units. You then asked how many could be hired when and were told, you hired those.

We have dealt with you both on equal footing, as we have stated from the beginning.

You declared war on us, razed a town, we returned to neutral status and even have negotiated a contract in good faith. This is further evidence of our neutrality. By our defense clause, we could have taken you from the game, for it allows us to declare any price for violating our neutrality as you did. We negotiated as fair a price as possible.

However, you are right about one thing. Negotiations are only negotiations until a deal is final. We do not go about reserving units because someone asked first or delaying action because we're in discussion, only when these deals are final. This is the only way to be fair.

Hire early, hire often, and you avoid all problems with us.

You were not early enough in this case.

Sarantium forgot to hire often and have let their open borders agreement lapse, hence we areallowed to be hire by you against them. Unless, of course, you wish to cancel that deal now. We are ready to move your troops out, do we still have a deal?

UnOrthOdOx
Team Mercenary Representative.

**polarnomad** · July 5, 2007, 00:46

Sounds like they are in a bit of a panic.

**UnOrthOdOx** · July 5, 2007, 07:43

The inevitable: "I'm gonna tell" PM:

So basically you just lied when you said you had no deals even under discussion with Sarantium.

I see. We trusted your words. If those units are in fact rented to Sarantium then I am afraid that we will have no choice but to reveal the chain of events and conversation logs to any potential customers.

We trusted your word. You still have time to honor it and I urge you to do so. I actually like the mercenary concept, but this kind of deception will make it unpalatable to me in any future game.

As I stated...we consider ourselves still in negotiation and are awaiting your price quote on a non-attack treaty.

Frankly Uno, on a personal note, I have about had it with the DG concept. The negotiations with you were actually stimulating and enjoyable...it started to renew my hope. However, if deception is going to be the word in this game then I think I have had it.

All I am asking is that you be fair and I have quite a bit of evidence that this "transaction" would be anything but.

Sorry.

PLATO

Response:

So basically you just lied when you said you had no deals even under discussion with Sarantium.

If you will go back and read, you will find this was never stated. In fact it cannot be stated. All negotiations are strictly confidential.

I told you we had old agreements with Sarantium. This is true. I told you contracts are awarded on first come first serve basis. This is true. I told you we are open to the possibility of 'do not attack' contracts occuring. This is true. For the next 11 turns for you, however, that is not possible due to existing contracts.

I see. We trusted your words. If those units are in fact rented to Sarantium then I am afraid that we will have no choice but to reveal the chain of events and conversation logs to any potential customers.

We trusted your word. You still have time to honor it and I urge you to do so. I actually like the mercenary concept, but this kind of deception will make it unpalatable to me in any future game.

As I stated...we consider ourselves still in negotiation and are awaiting your price quote on a non-attack treaty.

Frankly Uno, on a personal note, I have about had it with the DG concept. The negotiations with you were actually stimulating and enjoyable...it started to renew my hope. However, if deception is going to be the word in this game then I think I have had it.

All I am asking is that you be fair and I have quite a bit of evidence that this "transaction" would be anything but.

Sorry.

PLATO

Technically it's against poly rules to post private messages on a public board without permission. I hereby give you that permission if you wish to make this public. Keep in mind, WE OURSELVES were going to make the fact you hired us despite Sarantium hiring us first public. I bid you go ahead. Our negotiations with you are merely proof we are willing to be neutral.

We could not be entirely open with you, due to the fact we cannot disclose the fact we had contracts and/or negotiations with Sarantium. So, yes, we were 'hiding' this fact by not telling you. Something you asked us to do for you, in fact. It works both ways, as you are now discovering. It's the only way Merc team can work. This is not deception, it is abiding by our public statement and should be expected. No, we cannot tell you if or when we have negotiations with another team. However, nor will we tell them when we negotiate with you.

Now then. We have your units ready to move. Do we still have a deal?

-UnOrthOdOx
Team Mercenary Representative.

**Kloreep** · July 5, 2007, 10:17

Frankly Uno, on a personal note, I have about had it with the DG concept. The negotiations with you were actually stimulating and enjoyable...it started to renew my hope. However, if deception is going to be the word in this game then I think I have had it.

I try not to bring my C3CDG feelings into this game, but this one had me laughing. We've been no more deceptive than the Horde was in that game - which is to say, pretty good at playing teams against each other.

**UnOrthOdOx** · July 5, 2007, 10:40

quote]

Goodbye Uno.

Please contact Paddy about the existing deal. I am resigning. I have had enough of the bullcrap. I can tell you that I will never participate in a game where there is a mercenary team that double crosses people like you do.

Plato says:
Don't get me wrong. We understand if you get a contract that is unfavorable to us, but when we are involved in negotiations we wish that they could be concluded eithier positively or negatively before a competiting contract is entered into. No hard feelings on this. We understand your concept. It is just that we want to be able to count on our negotiations with you or there is really no point
UnOrthOdOx says:
Open borders with Sarantium signed on turn 75, 1040 BC, was 20 turn length, 10 remaining after we hit end turn this turn.
UnOrthOdOx says:
And if we agree to a contract, it will be fulfilled. But, we won't go breaking existing ones. This is the only one remaining of consequence at this time.

We based our entire strategy on trusting you. Congratulations on a well played betrayal. I must say, you fooled me. I actually trusted you.

**UnOrthOdOx** · July 5, 2007, 10:53

Damn, haven't made someone quit since the last time I dealt with GS....

anyway, response copied to paddy:

Plato,

I have never once lied. The open borders was the last agreement with them that impacted our ability to hire to you as I stated. You are receiving the contract you signed, in full, as presented from the beginning, should your team wish.

This is not double crossing. Double crossing would be agreeing to something and not following through. We cannot divulge contracts with other teams until certain times. You asked the same of us. This is a fact. If I had previously told you a no-attack contract was unavailable, it would have revealed this, breaking that confidentiality. Imagine Sarantium should contact me this afternoon and ask to extend the open borders deal. Would you have me tell them "no we can't, we've been hired against you" prior to the contract actually beginning?

If you have a better idea of how to handle such a situation, I would love to hear it. I am always looking to improve in this area. Personally, I see no other way to maintain neutrality and the confidentiality of the Sarantium contract.

I will be sad to see you go.

Paddy,

I need to know the status of our deal. We are prepared to move the units out, as agreed to. Do we still have a deal?

-UnOrthOdOx
Team Mercenary Representative

**polarnomad** · July 5, 2007, 11:00

Wow!

Hot damn! I thought this was a game!!

**UnOrthOdOx** · July 5, 2007, 11:01

"And if we agree to a contract, it will be fulfilled. But, we won't go breaking existing ones. This is the only one remaining of consequence at this time. "

In case they make a public ***** fest:

1. "at this time" Never said we were not negotiating.

2. We cannot divulge negotiations with any team, hence they could not have been told about that anyway, period. quote the public thread.

3. The contract they signed was/is prepared and ready in full. The Sarantium contract did not impact any part of our negotiations with the Horde and was therefore was not 'of consequence' to those negotiations.

I recall wording and rewording that particual reply several times that chat so it would not reveal we were having other discussions. Specifically adding 'of consequence' and 'at this time' to cover our asses in case of this. And breathed a sigh of relief that he never caught on it's blatantly insinuating we are in discussions.

**UnOrthOdOx** · July 5, 2007, 11:02

Originally posted by polarnomad
Wow!

Hot damn! I thought this was a game!!

Yeah, I seem to have a special talent of making folks forget that somewhere.

Announcement

Turn 94 - 550 BC

Turn 94 - 550 BC

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