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**Daddy-O** · July 20, 2006, 09:50

Border issue:
See the diplo thread. AC sent Platy a proposed border. Do we approve or have a counter proposal?

**Daddy-O** · July 20, 2006, 10:35

Sorry. Platy already had a poll set up. Keep discussion of that issue there.

**Addled Platypus** · July 24, 2006, 04:23

Daddy-O

go ahead and post all things AC dipo here

its better to keep them seperate each team seperate

**Daddy-O** · July 24, 2006, 10:28

Moving the latest emails here:

----------------
emailed to me 7/22
----------------

Hello new Banana diplomat,

Re city borders, that would be desired indeed, as far as possible. To make sure achieving this is easy, how about a one-tile no-city-build zone on both our borders?

Regarding a minimap trade, we're currently discussing this. I hope to get back to you soon.

Greetings,

Maniac of Centauri

my reply based on our discussions...

Sheng-Ji,
During our diplo conversations, I understand that we might slip into character and our 'nations' may or may not have harsh words for eachother. I want you to know that if this happens, none of it is personal. To try to be clear about this I will address you as Maniac of Centauri and I will sign as "Daddy-Musa"
-Mark

now on to the game...
----------------------------
Greetings Maniac of Centauri,
It is my pleasure to meet you. Trust that I speak with the full authority of our Banana Republic. I trust that you do the same for the Alpha Centurians.

We look forward to a long and enduring friendship between our neighboring nations. I am sorry if we gave the impression that we wanted to draw a line in the sand and set borders. We believe it is too soon to do such a thing. The darkness still crowds both of our lands. Let's not make promises to things that we do not fully understand.

Team Banana proposes that our nations agree to respect eachothers' borders as these naturally expand through time. Team Banana understands that as our nations grow and the darkness is peeled back, there will be disputes over borders, but that as friends we can discuss and work these out in peace.

Team Banana looks to the Alpha Centurians with the hope of a long term friendship and eventually an alliance.

Team Banana would like to start building this friendship by discussing ways that we could share technologies and co-operate in the research of new tech's. What are your thoughts on this?

Back to the borders. As friends who are mutually trying to discover our world, what are your thoughts on allowing open borders to allow peeling back the darkness and starting trade?

Again Team Banana looks to you as friends. To show my joy in being assigned to work with Alpha Centuri I baked a banana walnut loaf for you to share with your people. If our friendship grows as I suspect it will, I will forward the recipe.

May the Banana protect us and bring us joy,
Daddy-Musa

the following image was attached:

http://static.deliaonline.com/images/originals/h1133-banana-walnut-loaf-18670.jpg

**Daddy-O** · July 26, 2006, 12:50

a response from AC dated 7/26...

Greetings Ambassador Daddy-Musa,

The pleasure to meet you is likewise. However I should mention first that my name is not Sheng-ji. For that is the name of our Yellow Emperor, carrier of the Mandate from Heaven Sheng-ji Yang. I have sent along a portrait of his Majesty so that if you wish you can pay the usual honours to him every morning and evening.

I'd like to reply to certain parts of your most recent message.

"We look forward to a long and enduring friendship
between our neighboring nations. I am sorry if we
gave the impression that we wanted to draw a line in
the sand and set borders. We believe it is too soon
to do such a thing. The darkness still crowds both of
our lands. Let's not make promises to things that we
do not fully understand."

We find this statement odd. Was it not you who originally proposed setting a border upon first contact? It is hard for us to see how this is a misinterpretation or over-eagerness on the part of your earlier diplomat. Rather it seems a genuine shift in your position, a 180 degree shift to be more precise. In my experience such shifts in policy are legitimate and inevitable as the situation develops but if others are left in the dark as to the reason it leads to speculation which harms mutual trust.

Perhaps you found our proposal (or perhaps the land on your side of said border) lacking. If so we are open to negotiate borders based on Equal-Area rather than Equal-Distance and for these negotiations to wait till more of the map is scouted. We do believe there is danger in waiting too long on an agreement or allowing borders to come into contact haphazardly. Can we mutually agree to not make any landgrabs across the proposed border for the first two expansion cities with deadline to have a fully agreed upon border before the 3rd expansion of either side?

In regards to the Mini-map trade. Alpha Centauri was favourable to this and consider it a step in the negotiation process. Our first proposed border was based on the minimal information we had, better proposals can be made by both sides with more information. But with the perceived shift in your position away from any negotiations at all in this area we see no benefit for us in an exchange as it would no longer be stimulating meaningful negotiations or border proposals. Hopefully that stance will change in the future, for Alpha Centauri wishes only friendship with the Banana, and would look favourable upon an Open Borders agreement, once this becomes possible.

Regarding technological coordination or cooperation, this would be useful indeed, once possible. If there is enough trust, perhaps we could share our immediate plans to avoid unnecessary duplication before someone researches The Alphabet?

We have also considered the matter that both our realms have Industrious leaders who prefer to build large projects to demonstrate the magnificence of our empires. As a consequence, more than others Stone and Marble are important resources for us. However this does not need to lead to tensions - to the contrary, it could lead to more cooperation. Being Financial we are likely to have other technological and world wonder priorities than you. So for instance if we only had one marble and one stone in our vicinity, one of us could lend the resource to the other if he wants to build a certain wonder, and then return the favour another time.

I hope you will consider these possibilities,
May the Banana and the Way be compatible,

Maniac of Centauri

I will pull out some of the points that I find key in the next post.

**Daddy-O** · July 26, 2006, 13:14

I have attached the image of their great leader here.

About our change in attitude regarding the border...

if others are left in the dark as to the reason it leads to speculation which harms mutual trust.

This change in position has possibly harmed our trade of mini-maps. I propose that we explain that we took a vote and decided that it was just too early to draw a hard border. (I can make up something about visions from the Great Banana.) Do we just send the mini-map as a sign of good faith?

Can we mutually agree to not make any landgrabs across the proposed border for the first two expansion cities with deadline to have a fully agreed upon border before the 3rd expansion of either side?

What do we say to that? He also asks for a counter offer on the border. So if anyone wishes to draw another border please post it. I don't have a problem with his proposal.

Regarding technological coordination or cooperation, this would be useful indeed, once possible. If there is enough trust, perhaps we could share our immediate plans to avoid unnecessary duplication before someone researches The Alphabet?

our reply? What are we researching? What should they research? Do we offer to trade those techs at discovery?

He also suggests co-operation between our nations in regards to building wonders and the resources needed. I think we have found a friend in AC. We should agree to something here.

Attached Files

**EPW** · July 26, 2006, 14:21

Originally posted by Daddy-O
I have attached the image of their great leader here.

About our change in attitude regarding the border...

if others are left in the dark as to the reason it leads to speculation which harms mutual trust.

This change in position has possibly harmed our trade of mini-maps. I propose that we explain that we took a vote and decided that it was just too early to draw a hard border. (I can make up something about visions from the Great Banana.) Do we just send the mini-map as a sign of good faith?

Can we mutually agree to not make any landgrabs across the proposed border for the first two expansion cities with deadline to have a fully agreed upon border before the 3rd expansion of either side?

What do we say to that? He also asks for a counter offer on the border. So if anyone wishes to draw another border please post it. I don't have a problem with his proposal.

Regarding technological coordination or cooperation, this would be useful indeed, once possible. If there is enough trust, perhaps we could share our immediate plans to avoid unnecessary duplication before someone researches The Alphabet?

our reply? What are we researching? What should they research? Do we offer to trade those techs at discovery?

He also suggests co-operation between our nations in regards to building wonders and the resources needed. I think we have found a friend in AC. We should agree to something here.

Enough talk, more killing.

**Daddy-O** · July 26, 2006, 15:22

OK. That's one vote for working with AC & one vote for - um - more killing. Anybody else?

**Wise Ass** · July 26, 2006, 23:31

I would say that the reason for our change in border plans was that we realized that with out such further exploration, we don't want to find either side over limited by the drawing of such an early border, in good faith to show that we have not found something that would make us pull back our offer and give them the current mini map, and suggest they do the same.

As for the deadline, I would suggest that it is to early to set deadlines on exploration, and that we should deal with issues as they arise in terms of border cooperations.

and last, yes, I say that communicating what is being researched and possible trade propositions will be valueable to our continued friend ship, however, since we already showed good faith with the mini map, they should tell us of their research plans first so we aren't giving away the store.

just my 2 cents

**Daddy-O** · July 27, 2006, 09:36

2 for being friendly
1 for more killing

If I am to send a mini map I will need it posted here or fwd'd to my email.

theidiots yahoo com

I'd like to get back to AC soon. Any other opinions?

**Wise Ass** · July 27, 2006, 10:46

I mean if the whole thing doesn't work, I think there should be more killing, but I like to play with my prey.

**Daddy-O** · July 27, 2006, 13:49

Of course.

**Addled Platypus** · July 27, 2006, 17:14

Originally posted by Wise Ass
I mean if the whole thing doesn't work, I think there should be more killing, but I like to play with my prey.

agreed

**Daddy-O** · July 27, 2006, 17:42

So, are you in favor of sending the mini map, co-ordinating techs, and playing nice with the borders without setting a line or turn limit?

Who has the final say?
When should I respond to AC?

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