***ALL LIST/SUMMARY LINKS***

[Lord Magnus]

What do you mean? Civ3 hasn't been released yet. Unless no one is working on the list anymore.

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Learn the mistakes of yesterday to prevent the ones of tomorrow...

[Theben]

Supposedly MarkG is/was going to make the list2 available on the civ3 front page, but hasn't so far. I'd stop bumping this if he did.
The List2 may be over and done, but suggestions are still given in the other forum. I thought it'd be nice to have easy access to what was already written. And Snowfire, I made these links so that only 1 thread would need to be bumped every 10 days. It doesn't take much time out of my week.

[MarkG]

check out the main civ3 page http://apolyton.net/civ3/

[Theben]

MarkG:

I knew that the download was available, but I meant one that can be read at the civ3 main page.

Any idea how much longer it will be to finish? Thanks!

I should also mention that this list of links allows people to go back and read what the original author wrote, as sometimes what they wrote isn't quite what made it into the list.

[MarkG]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Theben on 07-12-2000 04:08 PM</font>
Any idea how much longer it will be to finish? Thanks!
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>I'd better not give an estimate
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I should also mention that this list of links allows people to go back and read what the original author wrote, as sometimes what they wrote isn't quite what made it into the list.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>ok, I'll put a link to this thread from the menu of the version 2 pages....

[yin26]

Markos,

Thanks for the update...I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see that the List V2 is a 400K+ file! By the way, what do you think about removing the List forum? Perhaps Theben (as he already suggested) should just move his links over and we can archive all the stuff here?
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited July 12, 2000).]</font>

[MarkG]

given the new "sticky" feature(see the apolyton forum or the news of the about section later), this thread wont need another bump
other thread could be "stuck" as well to increase traffic

all in all, archiving and removing the forum doesnt seem like something very usefull
at least in this way there is a chance someone may add something to a discussion...

[Theben]

That sounds like a great idea!

[meciv]

Just curious if this was mentioned at all. One of the things I actually liked about AC was the Iron Man mode. Anybody know if it was and what topic that might be in. thanks.

[Theben]

I believe it was mentioned in the CHEATS section. You'll have to read thru it to find where, though.

[A-Team]

I dont know if this is the right place for me to vent my many problems with the current programming of civ 2 and what prevents it from being the greatest game ever and my soloutions for improvements to be incorperated into a civ 3 version but i am going to ramble on for a few minutes anyways. If anybody is reading this, here i go.....
1) most civ 2 games are decided by 2 factors if played by competant players. They have nothing to do with skill but just luck. And worse yet, you could play for hours only to find out you had no chance to win from the beging.................
a) starting positions-
I keep asking myself when i see some of the totally insane places the computer starts you. On long thin pennisulas, burried behind two rungs of forests and hills, no huts anywhere near you on small conts. or no special resources in sight. Why????????? How stupid is this programing anyways? What a waste of time to play this game if the computer is going to decide the game before the first turn even begins.
The Fix
Its so simple to fix this. Just design about 100 different starting positions. Make them 4 squares in all directions from square first settler starts on. Make 3 special resources in range of first setlers city radius if city is built on that spot. Have a hut right next to first settler. Have three huts in that "box". Have the terrign open so as movement is not restricted. Then have the computer design the map around the starting positions of each AI and each human player.
The difference in settings decides which starting terrign are used with say 40 options available.
b) HUTs
I keep trying to figure out how the computer gives me 2 empties in a row while my opposition gets two citys. Or why I get three worthless techs that prevent me from getting into Monarchy where if i did I would get thoose techs in 6 turns anyways and since i got them before , Monarchy is now 8 turns longer to get. DEATH.
And forget about players tapping into the programing itself.
THE FIX
Very simple. Huts give you either.. 25-50-100 gold, tech,horseman,chariot,archer, settler,city, empty, or barbarian. Well lets start by eliminating 25 gold and empties from the equation. Lets set barbarians to like 3000 bc and after. Then for the first 4 huts you uncover you get horseman,chariot,city or settler in a random order but if you uncover 4 huts you get 1 of each. Then in the next 4 huts you get either archer, 50 gold, 100 gold or a tech and again you get all 4 in huts 5-8 in random order. After this all 8 are available in huts in random order once you get one, it wont be available till the next sequence of 8 huts. And of course, after 3000 bc, barbarians are added to the equation. This makes sure that the sides will grow evenly and faster but differently and that you get something from all huts you uncover. It also prevents cheating as you can know exactly what players get from huts cause it is guaranteed, just count the number of huts...
Further more, there should be at least twice as many huts as currently on the board.
Another thing that bothers me, is that many times i have the right techs to do certain tech research but dont get the option. Once had 7 techs and could not go for monarchy. Got the 8th tech and still did not get the option for monarchy. Oh and by the way, In the 8 turns it took me to get it, that 8 extra turns in depotism cost me the game. You should always have the option to do ANY tech you have the prereqs for.
Options to set up the game should be expanded. Her are some ideas:
1) control the amount of huts on the board 0, double, triple etc.
2) control the tech peridign just like the cheat option but without having to do all the corner turning
3) reveal the map at beging but so that you do not see your oppon. moves or starting position
4) 3 x 3 option for faster, wilder games

I really hope somebody actually reads this because incorperating these changes into civ3 would actually improve the game rather then just making changes that would not effect the things that cause the game to be stupid waste of time in certain starts.

[Shogun Gunner]

A Team, I use a technique found on these boards about a year ago...

On turn one, save the game, enable cheat, reveal map. If you like what you see, open the saved game and play that map.

If I don't use that technique, I try to measure how successful I am with what I started with. If I get handed a lousy starting position, I try to team up with another civ, or be a trade/science center (unless Mongols are nearby)... Anyway, I won't even think about high score Hall of Fame in those situations...

Anyway, just a thought. Your suggestions make sense and I hope Civ III is improved as much as Civ II was.

[phatman]

you need to remember Strat, that changes to be made in civ3 are to improving realism according to history, not to accomodate your playing strategy. True masters of this game have the ability to manipulate the hand they are dealt, whether it be starting on a penninsula or in mountainous terrain. The game allows for many competitive strategies.......remember too, the game assumes you are playing to the death or 2040ad or to colonize mars. It is not designed to end in 1000bc, 500bc or 1ad like most gameleague games, therefore you never have the opportunity to explore those methods.

[S. Kroeze]

Dear Theben,

I am a bit surprised to discover there is no link to the EC3 list .

Perhaps discussion was less thorough and detailed than during the preparation of the Main List, but it has the advantage of being manageable. Newcomers should at least been given the opportunity to read it. And Korn and Raingoon spent a lot of work on organizing it. I think it shouldn't be forgotten!

Thanking you in advance!

[Nsae Comp]

I hope I can post hear my Idears for Firaxis and Microprose and all Programmers who programm a CIV game or like that:

I have added some more idears since i posted this the first time -12.10.2000-
Sorry for my bad english, because i have now my first english lessons. But please go on reading i think there are some

intresting things.

Please make a post or send a E-Mail. If you can't understand something.

These text is to change Call to Power 2 and all Civilizations in the future.

The map:
I think the map should be change so that we haven’t settlers and building troops like all Civilization games, it would be
better like Sim City because in Sim City you must make rasters when you want that there the people can built homes, industry
buildings, and to built there fields and channels for water or wells, and areas for streets, in such areas where is no water
channels there you can built colonies, and you must make current in areas, and places where the garbage comes, and boundary
base, military bases, castles......, all these thinks must be indicated in per cent in every area on the map. In such areas
where many people life, these areas you can make from colonies in to markets in to villages and then in to cities or more
steps. Or when you dont do the managment in per cent, only like the old way then it should be so that when a city or colony ect. has one field then for example the City Wall should cost one production points, but when you have two city fields it, than it should cost two production poinst, and so on,...... You only need building troops when you built military bases, castles, boundary bases, radar stations, ship defends,
air defends..... Buildings for the people like, air ports, police offices, banks, hospitals......, all these can built every
where in all areas on the map I think about area widows and ever city has an boundary line and for this are you have a window
to look after your city. The map areas without any modernisation should be indicated in per cent too how many woods are in this area and how many fields ..... All areas make minus or a plus in progressive movement they set in miles per hour or kilometres per hour like that in wild one soldiers get a minus because there is no water but tanks and other machines are faster because they have enough petrol and the land is free there are no Prevent-eats. The population is made out of the
gelled how many people can live on the gelled and how many food are here and how rich are the because when the people have
not much money they must have children to have people how help them when they are old. The players should can make protected
areals so, should can make things like UN or EU and so on....

The military:
All units must be indicated in solders and every land must have a number of solders but these solders haven’t any thinks and
haven’t learned no special fight types. Then when you want to make solders for example with spears then you must indicated
how many people you want to have for this job then you must pay for them, pay for the learning how to use the spear and you
must pay for the construction of the material ( you can construct new units when you give them the materials and the learn
materials because you add only new weapons to the units).When you pay not so much then they loos more peoples and loos speed
in such areas in jungle in wild one.... and they often loos in the war. You should make a in the warwindow a strategy window
and there are some strategy maybe the player can construct strategy and can save them and use them. In the solder widow when
they are in war then they should can built contactors ditches. An ideer: maybe you can make Terrorist defens troops or
spezail troops for kill the president of other civilizations.....

The time:
You schould make the time in little steps first 50 years after, 25 year, 20 years, 15 years, 10 years, 5 years when you have
indusrtie, 2 years when you have measured production, 6 month when you have computers, 3 month with Interntn,......

The money:
The players should can make in every area of your land and other lands advertisement for this advertisement you must pay some
money in the area where do you want to do it so your land and the industry of your land gets more money because more people
know about your industrie. When you pay more for your industrie you productions would get be better so more people buy it and
that can make every land. When you have many protected areas you get many or more tourists and so you get money from other
lands or you get from your land money.

The science:
Only more sciences.
When you are the first country with a new science than you should get better diplomatics (because the other govern ments want to get the science or they will be scared when you have better wapons than you, but not when you have for example only one solger and he has 10 or more solgers)
When you have invented a science than you should get a regulary status but when you have the science for 100 years the
science should learn better technike of making for example arrows or other things because all your scientist and the
scientisc of the economy (i mean these scientist who search for new products for Corporations)and so all should get with the
time better -but you should could invent these allready better science too ,but you could search after other things too and
in the meentime your old sciences get better alone ,but not so fast-.

The government:
First you should choose wich government do you want, then you have a list what you want in your land for example: I want a king and parlament and many equal rights.... And no absolutly control of the peoples......
And when you have a new science like the industrial revulution then you should have more unhappy people until you given to your government settings trade unions.
When your unhappines in a citty is near at the revultion then some times there should be destroit buildings by terrorist and the criminal rate should get higher with each unhappy guy.

The religion: You shoud can choos a religion for example: When 86% of your poulation are buddhism and 14% katholic and your neighbor country is 100% katholic than would grow your percentage of your katholic people (however depends on it neighbour the country is as powerful, and whether in your country censorship or the Kummunismmus prevails.

The Wonders:
Every country should can build in every city every Wonder, but than the broduction cost for every wonder should be a great number

The food:
The food system should be like in Master of Orion 2 all food what is produced in the country should given to every guy, i mean when a city produce 1 food but it needs 2 and a nother city produce 2 but needs only 1 than the second city should offer with caravans the first city their food, and you should be able to bye some food from other countrys.

The diplomatics:
When you captaired a howle land (for example the rome) then the romes's shuled be still written in your diplomatic option and in this option you should see how do they like you and when their happynes is as bad as they want war, all your citys were are rome people are living, make a revulution, but not these cities where you have spezial buildings, or buildings who make more happynes, or when you have units in there( but you need for example when you have a city of scieze 5 then you need 1 unit to controle the city, but the produktion is still bad). But when you have only angry people in the rome cities, not people who want war, then the production off each output (gold, industrial production , science, ect.) shued be worst. But maybe this all only then happen when you ,or the captured country have allready got the science "Nationalism".
In a captured city for example from the rome empire, the people in the city should be as happy as the people in the rome empire about you, and when you are in war with the main land then the cities of the rome empire wich you have captiored should make a revultuion but not when buildings in the city make the happynes better, or when you have other spezial buildings, or when you have units in this cities (because they kill the revultionary people, but you need for example when you have a city of scieze 5 then you need 1 unit to controle the city but the produktion is still bad).

Please contact me only over E-Mail.(NComp@gmx.net)

Please make a post or send a E-Mail when you can't understand something.


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Keep Smile and keep cleare in your head.
Everyone is its fate - and its environment - blacksmith
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Nsae Comp (edited November 10, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Nsae Comp (edited November 10, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Nsae Comp (edited November 21, 2000).]</font>