UNITS (v. 1.3): hosted by JT

[korn469]

i think the way units are supported should be changed. i think that a certain number of units should create a soldier specalist. it could be handled on a national basis so that depending up your support level that would be the number of soldier specialist spread throughout your empire. the soldier specailist would be like all other specialist(scientist, tax colloector, entertainer, doctor, engineer, transend)...one population of a city not working the land and this would represent the logistics and people need to keep a military machine running. like specialist in alpha centauri the soldier specialist would modify labs and economy.

the modifier would be -2 economy -2 labs

support level

three 4 units create a soldier specialist 6 units to a soldier no penalties for the first solider

two 4 units create a soldier 6 to a soldier

one 3 units create a soldier 5 to a soldier

zero 3 units create a soldier 4 units to a soldier

minus one 2 units create a soldier 3 units to a soldier

minus two 2 unit creates a soldier 2 units to a soldier

minus three 1 unit creates a soldier 2 units to a soldier

minus four 1 unit creates a soldier 2 units to a soldier each soldier specialist has a -3 labs/-3 economy modifier

for example if 2 units create a soldier and there are four units to a soldier, you build one infantry man you don't have any soldiers, on your second infantry man you get a soldier and then you get your second soldier when you have 6 infantry men

naturally when units were disbanded or killed the soldier specialist would turn back into regular workers

if you lost soldier specailist in one city and couldn't create them in another you would have to disband units



<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited June 15, 1999).]</font>

[Ove]

New suggestion (I think. I haven't seen it in the forums):

Instead of building units, build the weapons and vehicles. These can be put in storage (well, riding and fighting animals are an exception) and later be combined with people (taken from the population, lessening the workforce remaining) to form a unit. The unit can then be put in training in barracks/whatever.

This would mean that unarmed militia could be quickly cobbled together (it just requires people). It also means that in order to maintain a strong industry/economy while waging war, other sources of production have to be considered (slaves/automation/equal job opportunities for both sexes/...).

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ove (edited June 15, 1999).]</font>

[Bubba]

Dear Ove,

that suggestion sounds very similar to the style of SM's Colonization. Although I liked the game most people found the micromanagement to much.

Another (unrelated) idea. If their is a trade system similair to CTP with area specfic goods then an interesting unit would be to have a Tapper (I think this is from Imperialism), resource collector, courier de bois (for land) or fishing vessel (for sea)that could sit on a resource and send it back to a city. This would allow one to trade resources that are out of the reach of the city radius and are in places where cities are unattractive (arctic tundra) or currently unreachable (middle of ocean). These trade routes could then be pirated or the unit destroyed by a rival Civ. It would also be historically accurate in that it would model the fur trade in North America and the current fishing fleets of many nations.

Any thoughts?

[Ove]

Here is my idea of how to be able to get into itty-bitty details and still be able to say no to micromanaging.

A unit design interface (with lots of pre-designed units combined with save and load facilities) which lets you combine, people, animals, vehicles and weapons or special equipment to form named units. Furthermore, letting you combine units (of the same or different type) into larger units (battalions -> brigades -> divisions -> Army Corps -> Armies -> Army groups).
And if combat takes place in a special window, also configuring the formations and battle plans of each grouping.

Then, instead of building all the units that you think are needed for a surprise attack on a nearby enemy, you give the order to your production minister that you want a "panzer armee"/five legions/whatever.

By dividing the different tasks (diplomacy/spying/research/trade/production/military/security/ecology/morale) among ministerial posts, you could hopefully let the computer handle the parts of the game that become tedious or uninteresting.

Of course, to avoid AI stupidity, you will have to give detailed instructions at least one time to each minister.

example:
You have given your diplomacy minister a directive to improve relations with your neighbour.
The minister informs you that your neighbours insist on a special trade relation in which they will buy weapons for food.
The ministers of trade, production and military tries to dissuade you from that course of action, because; you will lose money, your production facilities are already engaged with other orders and it is dangerous to arm your neighbour.
You instruct diplomacy and trade to make the deal anyway, but delay the weapon shipments. Production are ordered to commence the weapon production and turn them over to military who will use them to make an attack army that can crush this insolent neighbour.

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ove (edited June 15, 1999).]</font>

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ove (edited June 15, 1999).]</font>

[JT3]

THREAD CLOSED THREAD CLOSED THREAD CLOSED

[Harel]

A short notice:

The last thread, as JT3 can tell you all, turned into a somewhat ugly feud about whatever a SMAC-like unit workshop should or shouldn't be included in the game.
Now, it's time to sort it out diplomaticly.
I and two other members asked MarkG to make the next apolyton.net survey about this.
So, i think it would be great if we could get a real answer of what people REALLY want.
It's in apolyton.net/civ3.
It's an important issue, and would change the civ series a lot. ( besides, it's my idea, so it's got to be good! ) ).

[Francis]

I like the idea of some kind of Exploitation unit that can send back resources to its home city.

While others have suggested civ-wide support for military units, I'm not sure I can think how this would be done besides gold, which might be viable.

I kind of liked Korn469's idea about soldier specialists to support military, but this would have to apply only to modern units--can't be taking your one citizen off the land to support a couple of phalanx units! I'm not sure I agree about the production/science modifiers though. You do lose the use of that citizen to work the land, which is already a penalty--or for big cities, the potential happines/sci/tax benefits of another type of specialist.

Lung is absolutely right about early units supporting themselves off the land and by pillage. Early units could still be NON, I guess. Here's another idea--units should expire. There are times when phalanxes garrison my early cities until very late in the game. This is, ahem, ridiculous. At certain points--maybe major military advances, like gunpowder--you should have the option of upgrading these units for a reduced shield cost, or disbanding them. The upgrading process would automatically turn early NON units into supported units.

Ove, interesting idea on avoiding micromanagement. See my post in the Radical Ideas forum.

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Francis (edited June 15, 1999).]</font>

[Flavor Dave]

"These can be put in storage (well, riding and fighting animals are an exception) and later be combined with people (taken from the population, lessening the workforce remaining) to form a unit."

No for 2 reasons. The less important is that it isn't realistic. The number of folks doing the actual fighting has always been a small percentage of the total population.

The other is game play. If one player runs into another player's size one city, that city would be force to activate its units. But then, when it took the "citizen" out of the fields, wouldn't the city starve?

Bubba--as far as your idea goes, I made the suggestion that we adapt the explorer to allow him to perform the function "t", which would create a trading post. Or, you could have a new unit, a miner, that could do the same thing.