Urban Citizens

[GaryGuanine]

Youngsun,

I'm opposed to any mandatory resource system, as well. It should be like the Civ2 resources system. This is being discussed on another thread.

You ask what the centers for industry were before industrialization. There were none. Some stuff got made, sure, but there were not devoted "workingmen", as we think of today. I think the present system does a great job in making production pretty steady until Industrialization. As it should be.

As for the elvis thing. Come on, it's a picture that represents "Entertainer (technically, producer of luxuries)" in a city. They're not claiming that rock and roll existed in Ancient times, it's just a symbol that doesn't affect gameplay. What I'm saying is that we should not claim a large middle class devoted to mass production of goods existed in ancient times. That would affect gameplay, in a way so that it would diverge from the course of history dramatically.

Gary

[Youngsun]

I thought you read this in resource thread.

quote: Originally posted by Youngsun on 02-15-2001 01:29 AM labours: providing labour points?(maybe after the discovery of Industrialization-by replacing obsolte craftsmen from Ancient era)

[GaryGuanine]

Youngsun,

Actually, I had read that. My last few posts were regarding the anachronicity (?) of the laborer class. OF course, in my first post I stated that the industrial city improvements (Factory, Man. Plant, Power Plant) already perform this function. If you want a laborer around after Industrialization, take out those improvements. Otherwise, it's "double jeopardy", sort of.

Gary

[Youngsun]

For your information, city improvement like Bank, Temple and University are the same sort of redundant bonus booster.

Banks are redundant with Taxmen
Temples are redundant with Entertainers
Universities are redundant with Scientists

So what's wrong with having Labours and a Factory together?
[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited February 22, 2001).]

[GaryGuanine]

Youngsun,

You're absolutely right. The more I think of it, maybe I don't like the specialists.

Gary

[Youngsun]

Do you have personal grudge on labour party, labour class,labour union or anything that is related to the word "Labour"?

[Biddles]

quote: Originally posted by Youngsun on 02-22-2001 01:24 AM Do you have personal grudge on labour party

Not after Queensland.

[GaryGuanine]

Of course I do, youngsun, why should anyone make a fair wage for a day's work?

Gary

[Youngsun]

quote: Not after Queensland.

Indeed..

quote: Of course I do, youngsun, why should anyone make a fair wage for a day's work?

Haha! you are the true evil capitalist

[Grumbold]

Cities were certainly production centres before the industrial revolution. All the revolution did was dramatically increase the amount of production that could be output by a single worker through mechanical support. Cities grow up around sites of production which require manpower. They then become trade centres if the goods they sell are in demand, making the inhabitants rich so they can afford imported goods.

[Henrik]

Before the industrial revulotion labourers could be called "Artisans", since that is what the factories replaced.
The whole systems whit Aprentices, Journymen and Masters where the industry before the industrial revulotion.

[Straybow]

Too few city improvements add trade, which should be the basic production of cities. Those Athenian potters didn't help arm soldiers, they just provided opportunity for trade.

There was a legendary thread called "From Terrain to Urbanism: an Innate Conceptual Fault" in which Vagabond posted his ideas for modelling urbanization as a source for trade and shields. His basic idea is: each city structure employs citizens just like terrain tiles (boxes beside the city terrain display would be added when the improvement is built).

A structure would grant a certain level of increased production/gold, then placing a citizen in the box would boost the benefit incrementally.

[Optimizer]

The president of our university (The Royal Swedish Institute of Technology) just loves to talk about the 3-17-80 ratio - which means that in a low-industrialized country, 80% of the population are farmers, 17% are industrial workers and 3% worked with services. In a post-industrial society, it is the other way around. This should be the greatest distinction between life today and a hundred years ago.

The model for resource production should be changed, so that an industrialized city would need less workforce to grow and mine the surrounding lands. This would leave place for more specialists.