Civ-2 also in Civ-3 - Is it only me?

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by orange on 12-17-2000 04:03 PM Personally I would much rather see a better diplomatic system set up before I see better AI (though I do want that as well)

A diplomatic system before a better AI, is like asking for a faster car before a stronger engine, or a more streamlined design.

It doesnt make sense. A diplomacy system without an AI, is just an empty shell.

Only in multiplayer games the AI can be reduced to a "go-between" or a messanger-boy - carrying out human player orders. The problem is however, due to the lengthy and complex nature of Civ-gaming, that the "multiplayer" option can never be a stand alone alternative. Only an added feature. And they cannot release a game for multiplayers only, can they?

[Grumbold]

Some posts from 'The List' seemed to be talking about Units in SMAC terms, i.e. you would develop the technology to make a 2 point attack, or to ride horses for 2 movement points then build your own flavour of 1.1.1, 1.1.2, 2.1.2 and 2.1.1 units as desired. While I had some reservations about this initially I am coming more and more to thinking it is a much more open and flexible approach than trying to name each unit type and tie it to a certain tech. If the Japanese can call their 1.2.1 Ashigaru while the Romans call theirs Auxiliaries, even better. It also allows for many many more units in the long run, and in the modern era Civ is woefully short of different ground unit types IMO.

[Deity Dude]

I'm for a better AI as being the primary thrust. Unfortunately, i'm sure it is probably the hardest to accomplish. It doesn't take much to program new units or techs.

[airdrik]

Grumbold, what you described is what is called the Unit Workshop. If you want to see more about this topic, just search for it, but it is a very contraversial topic on this forum since there are some people who refuse to have unit workshop in Civ 3, for this reason I have suggested (a number of times) that it be an option at installation, whether or not you want to install it.

[orange]

quote: A diplomatic system before a better AI, is like asking for a faster car before a stronger engine, or a more streamlined design. It doesnt make sense. A diplomacy system without an AI, is just an empty shell.

I don't think you understand. I want to see better options, as in trading land a better system of embassies, better ways at expressing the interaction between the two.

The AI improvement is certainly important to this. But if the diplomacy stayed the same as it is in Civ 2, I wouldn't even care. I need the best of both worlds, and to me the first is more important.


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[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

airdrik, what exactly is a 'unit workshop'? I thought it was the same as a 'units editor'. please just give me an idea of what it is like. I would really like to know because I am a MAJOR scenario builder, and love to make new scenarios.

[Rollo Tomasi]

The Unit Workshop was used in SMAC and was how players created units to manufacture. Instead of technological advances giving new units, they gave new components, such as laser weapons or synthsteel armor. Using these components, you would build your units from scratch, picking out the chassis, weapons, armor, and other attributes for the unit. As airdrik said, this is a very contrversial topic. Some loved the customization it gave; some hated it, mostly for the fact all the units tended to look the same.

[Grumbold]

I knew what it was but not what it was called

I can't see any easier way of introducing lots more unit options into Civ3. If all units are coded into the game and tied to techs then unless the tech tree expands we are stuck with this whole idea of a WWI tank unit == a 1999 tank unit and no gradually expanding functionality. I certainly would not want the units to be graphically like SMAC (yawn) but the Unit Workshop seem the easiest way to allow the potential to slowly improve from 6-4-3 tanks to 10-8-5 tanks over 100 turns instead of having to wait for a totally new unit type. With multiple unit combat stacks the potential for good combined arms tactics is huge, something CtP2 has hinted at without really delivering the ideal answer.