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**Christantine** · May 14, 2000, 16:05

I think I have figured out a solution to the Pax "X" problem. A Pax "X" would start when
your peace points reach +100 on your score. Then your science, luxury and shield output
would be doubled and you would get the benifits of the Hanging Gardens. You would also be required to be at Peace or above terms with every known civilization. Pax "X" would be ended if:

1) You declared war aganst someone.

2) You changed governments to Communism, Monarchy or Despotism.

3) A city has been in civil disorder for more than 2 turns.

4) A city has no Happy people.

This was the latest revision of the Pax "X" idea. Please post your changes/suggestions.

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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

**Venger** · May 14, 2000, 17:56

The problem with the term Pax "X" is that Pax Romana, Pax Brittanica, etc. hardly ever really included "peace". Rather, a singular power was able to maintain some semblence of order through occassional intervention or total dominance. I like the concept, just wonder how best to do it...

Venger

**OrangeSfwr** · May 14, 2000, 18:17

Yah I'm gonna have to agree with Venger on this one, from what someone explained to me, Pax "x" doesn't really mean the most peaceful Civ. It most likely means the most powerful one. Plus, peace points are when the WORLD is at peace, not just your Civ. So I don't know if your solution applys. I like the idea, I just don't know how to implement it in the game. Any other suggestions on how this can be possible?

P.S. I think my smily means "hmmm". I thought it suited my post

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

**Youngsun** · May 15, 2000, 01:22

quote:

Pax "x" doesn't really mean the most peaceful Civ. It most likely means the most powerful one.

exactly! and your message icon looks like an ugly round biscuit haha (no offence of course)
[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited May 15, 2000).]

**Christantine** · May 15, 2000, 16:43

I have a correction because I was not fully aware that the peace points counted for the entire world. Maybe if you have been at peace with the world for a 100 turns it should kick in.

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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

**OrangeSfwr** · May 15, 2000, 22:55

quote:

Originally posted by Youngsun on 05-15-2000 01:22 AM
exactly! and your message icon looks like an ugly round biscuit haha (no offence of course)
[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited May 15, 2000).]

Haha, you see it too?!?

Christantine - but still, how does that apply to the fact that the Pax X is for the most powerful, not the most peaceful? And instead of a wonder, how else could it be in the game? Maybe an added diplomatic bounus for the most powerful nation?
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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[This message has been edited by OrangeSfwr (edited May 15, 2000).]

**korn469** · May 16, 2000, 00:41

i think of a pax (insert civ here) as a peace aquired through overwhelming force of arms...if a pax X became part of civ3 then you would need some conditions...

how about these

you civ is #1 in military power
you civ is no lower than #4 in economic power
your civ is at least at strong as your next three (maybe four) rivals

the you would need some bonuses

when you ask for a peace treaty your enemy will automatically sign it unless your reputation is very low
for every multiple after one that your civ is more powerful than your next three rivals then you get that many extra happy people per city...for example if you civ is just as powerful as the next three most powerful military civs then you get no happy people per city, however if you were twice as powerful you would get one happy person per city
your civ gains one point of commerce while civs you trade with lose one point of commerce
each turn your allies will send you tribute

it all comes to an end when either you lose military power or if your reputation goes too low

hows that for a start?

korn469

**Adm.Naismith** · May 16, 2000, 05:39

Interesting thread but, because I'm gaining a bad charma into this forum about criticism, I've signed a deal to make some to every post

No, really, in game terms when a Civ is so powerful to have all yours "pax" prerequisite, you are already untuchable by others players (if IA driven). Also in multiplayer a good human will be overwhelmed by any competitor that reach "pax bonus".

But thinking twice, the PAX doesn't need to put bonus only to the owner, but to other civ too!
I mean, forced or not others Civ are in peace, trades raise, tech rate increase because of easier flow of info between civs...

If I'm a "pax candidate" civ I must be in doubt about the balancing of gaining "pax" bonus BUT let others civs regain momentum by me!

Some example (roughly, just to explain the concept, I'm sure you can do better than me)

Keeping for PAX civ some benefits (apart the ones that clashes with mine model), I suggest other civs will gain something like:

- trade points bonus DOUBLE than PAX civ (not less, as korn suggest: I'm not sure is economically accurate, still I think that small economy take -in percentage- more benefits trading with large economy)

- share every tech from PAX civ except the last acquired or the last military (easy flow of info, difficult to keep secrets)

So minor Civ become "parasite" of main CIV research and trade? No, if Firaxis make some limits (by turns or by events) to cut off benefits at some point:

- benefits shade away after xx turns of "pax"
- pax ends when the CIV has no longer the requisite
- sharetech stop for a nation when it gain a new tech by itself research OR it lower the research budget under xx% (so you can't cheat putting research budget to zero and living on the shoulder of PAX civ).

Anyone like mine suggestion or you still like more a tool to let you crush AI civs under your boot?

**Christantine** · May 16, 2000, 07:27

OrangeSfwr

The reason I launched this thread is because The Pax "X" concept was no longer a wonder idea so it didn't belong in the thread about wonders. Right now it is a event that can happen with the guidelines that have been posted by other people. It now isn't a wonder.

Everyone

Remember that the Pax "X" is not a wonder but an event.

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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

**OrangeSfwr** · May 16, 2000, 17:59

Ok Chirstantine, I thought you were still pitching this as a Wonder. Well I think it would be accurate as an event of some sort.

Korn - Define most powerful. In Civ 1 and 2 you could have 100 units and be the most powerful even if they were composed of Phalanx, Horesmen, Chariots, and Catapults during the time of Aviation and Automobile! I never liked that much, I brought it up in another thread, but in order for your system to work, I think a new formula should be made for the "most powerful civ" (eg creating a "power point" for each unit. Phalanx - 1, Armor - 50 etc.)

Also, why should you be forced to make peace? I don't like this idea at all, no nation should ever be forced to make peace except for when the Senate overrules you (Republic, Democracy). IMHO the Great wall was not understood to well because it makes all nations sign a peace treaty with you when you ask for one. The GW was really made to protect Northern China against raids from nomadic barbarians. I think the GW should keep all barbarians out of your civ's borders and make a citizen happy or something. It's purpose in Civ 1/2 is inaccurate. Somone spoke of this in another thread as well. Also, UN. Why does that make you sign a peace treaty? There should always be the option to refuse a peace treaty. That's just my opinion. Instead, why not make other civ's view of you go up (comparable to Eiffel Tower) along with giving you a diplomatic tie to every nation and maybe giving you knowledge of every civ's map? Not the whole map, but just everyone's world view put together, which may or may not be the entire map.

Ok I got very off topic, I just got into it and kept writing. I'd like to hear more about the Pax X idea.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

**Youngsun** · May 17, 2000, 06:40

quote:

Define most powerful. In Civ 1 and 2 you could have 100 units and be the most powerful even if they were composed of Phalanx, Horesmen, Chariots, and Catapults during the time of Aviation and Automobile! I never liked that much, I brought it up in another thread, but in order for your system to work, I think a new formula should be made for the "most powerful civ" (eg creating a "power point" for each unit. Phalanx - 1, Armor - 50 etc.)

Good point! I was always frustrated about this one and OrangeSfwr pointed out well. Factors like Attack/Defence/Firepower have to be considered before calculating any civ's military power not by just number of units.

[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited May 17, 2000).]

**OrangeSfwr** · May 17, 2000, 15:49

I started a thread on this a while back, it's probably in the archives somewhere Feel free to revive it if you want to go into further detail.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

**Par4** · May 20, 2000, 11:54

Pax should be achieved in a few more ways. Diplomatically if your at peace with everyone around you then you should get one. Maybe controlling a continent or something. What about naval superiority too, ground/naval superiority more powerful than top 5 civs. Calculations of units needs to be changed, alot up the counts to real numbers like population. Defense of legion 531 defense of marine amphibious squad 15643 WW2 tank attack 12245 stuff like that.

Pax bonuses
2x trade
2x research
10% pop happy(if we have real numbers)

If we have support numbers(SMAC)
-1 support for peacetime(maybe)

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