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PROS, CONS, BUGS, and NOTES
This post is intended to be of value to the following groups:
1) People deciding whether to buy CIV III
2) Fellow civers who like to commiserate on the game foibles
3) Fellow civers who are frustrated by the fact that this game is SO close to being truly incredible and with a few small tweaks could be.
4) The Firaxis programmers who regularly peruse these forums looking for ways they can improve CIV III (I can dream, can’t I?)
To provide some context, thus far, I have played 3 games of Civ III:
Game 1 was a regent game as Zulus. I gave up about halfway through as I became increasingly frustrated at the many mistakes I was making due to my unfamiliarity with the new aspects of the game.
Game 2 was a regent game as Iroquois. Won in 1858 via spaceship. Wasn’t real close. Only the Americans had built any other spaceship parts.
Game 3 was a monarch game as Chinese. Won in 1740 via diplomacy. Again, wasn’t real close.
Game 4 will either be Persians on emperor or the GOTM at CivFanatics.
Okay, now on to the PROS, CONS, BUGS and NOTES. Obviously the below assertions and observations are just my opinion, but I think most would agree. I also would like to apologize in advance if some of the points below have been made before by others.
PROS:
- PRODUCTION SYSTEM. No 50% penalty when switching production, no advantage to incremental rush-building, good system of rush-building that under certain govs kills a citizen.
- GAME EDITOR. While still a long ways off from what most of us wish it was, it is an order of magnitude better than what we’ve had in the past (see cons for problems).
- CIVILIZATION “PERSONALITY.” With the civ-specific capabilities and special units, your adversaries seem much less generic making it a little bit easier to pretend you’re not just playing against a computer.
- CULTURE. This has been implemented very well and can be a great focus for the non-militaristic civer.
- MOVEMENT. Great “go to” command. I find that I use the mouse exclusively for unit movement. In addition, there’s no more instances in which partial movement may or may not get you to the next square; now if you have movement left, you can go.
- COMBAT. Unit engagements are simply more fun than they were in Civ II. Although the system has introduced new weaknesses (see cons for problems), several improvements have greatly increased the tactical options. These improvements include the removal of zones of control, unit advancement (don’t you love seeing that unit go Elite?!), the ability to retreat, and bombardment.
- WORKERS/SETTLERS. This system makes sense and works surprisingly well.
- SAVE/RELOAD CHEAT: This has been partially mitigated. I find that when I reload last turn, I get the same result for all randomly determined events (hut results, battle outcomes, pollution, etc). Note that you can get around this by reloading the last turn and invoking an event that requires a random response (such as negotiations with another civ). This will change (cycle?) the random number used for determining events on the subsequent turn. Not that I would ever do that…
- GOLDEN AGE. I like the idea, though I would like to see a few other benefits thrown in, e.g. no penalty for switching governments and other civs become temporarily more acquiescent.
- SMALL WONDERS. This was a fantastic idea. More things to build overall and helps mitigate the crippling effect of not getting a few key wonders.
- HUMOR. Nice humor throughout - I especially liked the options I got when I asked for a revolution (A. “So you want a revolution?” and B. “No, you can count me out”) and the way the Japanese asked for an end to our protracted war (“war, huh, what is it good for – absolutely nothin’!”)
- MUSIC. Although there are a few selections that bug me (namely that John Tesh-like piece from the modern age), the music is overall very good.
- DIPLOMACY. Lots more options and control.
- RESOURCES/TRADE. Thank god I’m not running caravans all over the place to set up trade routes. Trade is handled well through diplomacy and with resources required to built certain units, it makes for more exciting and meaningful negotiations.
CONS:
- NO MULTIPLAYER.
- NO MULTIPLAYER.
- NO MULTIPLAYER. The worst thing about this is I highly doubt we will see multiplayer as a patch. Instead, it will be part of an “expansion pack,” like Civ 2 Gold was. Bastards.
- POOR PACKAGING. Where is my tech tree poster? Where is my quick reference card for resources or terrain or units? Come on! I spend fifty frickin’ dollars! I want something tangible!! Speaking of which, many thanks to Julian Egelstaff for creating a very good reference card (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...&threadid=7359)
- BULKY. What a beast this program is. I’ve got a pretty hefty machine (P-III, 866 MHz w/ 128 MB RAM), but if often takes close to a minute to load a saved game.
- GAME EDITOR. They need to merge the graphical aspect (i.e. icons and unit pics) of mods. Also, how do I do events now and how do I reduce rate/occurrence of pollution?
- COMBAT SYSTEM. Combat is more random than it was in CIV II (in my mod, I’ve increased the hit points from 2,3,4, and 5 to 4,6,8, and 10 to try and average results out a bit more)
- TECH TREE. See my wonderfull insightful post on this topic(http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=36645)
- WASTED PRODUCTION. There is no longer an ability to pool resources and this leads to a big problem. I’m not saying there needs to be a caravan unit, per se, but there needs to be some way I can avoid wasting massive amounts of shields. There are numerous occasions during each game in which I’ve built every city improvement and I’m not interested in building any more military units. So what do I do? I start building a palace (thank God the damn thing is so expensive) and try to switch to something better when/if it comes along. I know there’s the “wealth” option, but it offers very little return. What I’d like to see is the option to build more temples or libraries or cathedrals, which allow for additional (though diminishing return) cultural value. Or let me build additional barracks and invest shields in unit training to increase my unit’s experience level without having to go to war. Or funnel production into more efficient commerce, etc.
- MAGIC ROADS. What is up with the inability to use an opponent’s roads? This must be an awkward attempt at game balance (give defending nation a large advantage), because it makes zero sense otherwise. Just because I am in an opponent’s territory should not mean that the road I’m on suddenly stops functioning. Roads either work or they don’t. I should be able to use another civ’s roads as if they were my own, but I agree that I should NOT benefit from an opponent's railroads.
- RAILROADS. Speaking of railroads, I’ve always disliked the infinite move rule. I had really hoped they were going to change this from previous CIV iterations. An increased movement rate (say 8 or 10) would be much more appropriate. As it is, it is not just unrealistic, it gives WAY too large of an advantage to the defending civ.
- CORRUPTION. At the risk of beating a dead horse, this really is set too high. As it is, the game is just too slow.
BUGS:
- Granaries are not functioning in certain cities. It’s very strange. I see the granary listed under city improvements, but there is no horizontal line at the center point of the food box.
- Airpower. Can’t get air superiority missions to work (I think this is pretty common knowledge by now) and the current treatment is tantamount to long range artillery.
- If I abandon a size 2 city, the resulting settler name is gibberish (looks like a stack overflow).
- Railroads do NOT work as advertised. Civilopedia claims 50% shield increase for squares with RR improvement (as in CIVII). Instead it seems to add 1 shield to mined squares and 1 food to irrigated squares.
- Several of the pop-up advisors refer to me as “Mr. , blah, blah, blah.” This happens at least while I’m in democracy and perhaps at other times. Clearly, there should be some word after “Mr.”
- Upgrading to special units. Perhaps this isn’t a bug, but rather a design decision. If it is, it is a poor one. As the Chinese, I should be able to upgrade my horseman to my knight-equivalent (Rider), rather than having to start from scratch.
- Unit sounds. Some of the units make a strange sound when moving. Example: The Rifleman shoots the whole time it moves. This can’t be intentional.
NOTES/SUGGESTIONS:
- The year won should be listed in the hall of fame screen
- Leaders are a bit too hard to come by, especially considering so much of your success depends on them. I’d really like to see one surefire, non-military method of obtaining a leader (maybe all those extra shields I’m wasting building 10 palaces!)
- The city building aggression of the AI needs to be toned down. That one tundra square on my continent that is not contained in my borders should not be a beacon to my opponents.
- An ironclad should not be able to see/sink my subs.
- Speaking of submarines, these are still not implemented well. In reality, a submarine is a very potent weapon, but as in CIV II, these units remain largely impotent. They should be much more difficult to find.
- The palace view (building my palace) worked fine the first game. Since then, however, it never comes up anymore and I don’t know how to get it back!
- The output/impact of citizen specialists is just too minimal, especially considering it’s not affected by city improvements as it was in CIV II
- City improvements should be able to be sold en masse, especially improvements like walls and granaries which can become obsolete after certain wonders.
- The rush-building interface gets me almost every time. I don’t know how many times I’ve accidentally rush built something I didn’t intend to. This could be idiot-proofed by adding a red “x” to the pop-up.
- I’ve never had the foreign advisor steer me wrong during negotiations. By listening to him, I am assured of the best possible deal every time. Seems a little TOO easy…
- I wanted to have Magellan’s add a harbor to every coastal city. After making the appropriate mod in the bic file, the game added a harbor to EVERY city. Looks kind of strange in the aerial view when a desert city has a floating harbor. There needs to be a way in which the game only adds these improvements where appropriate.
- Anybody know where the attitude advisor is? I’d like to know which cities are threatening to revolt (without having to scroll through all of my cities).
- Why is it that if I win by rank (after retiring), the other civs still mock me? Not that my ego is that fragile, but come on…
- Although the implementation of barbarians is overall more sensible, they really shouldn’t be coming from a static, known village. After all, the common characteristic of virtually all barbarian tribes throughout history is that they were all nomadic (generally because they lacked the desire or knowledge to develop an agrarian culture).
- When a city reverts back to the original owners (which seems to happen too often to me, a culturally dominant Democracy), it shouldn’t take my army and best military units with it!
Again, sorry if many of these things have been mentioned previously. I hope that at least a few of my ideas are new/interesting!
1) People deciding whether to buy CIV III
2) Fellow civers who like to commiserate on the game foibles
3) Fellow civers who are frustrated by the fact that this game is SO close to being truly incredible and with a few small tweaks could be.
4) The Firaxis programmers who regularly peruse these forums looking for ways they can improve CIV III (I can dream, can’t I?)
To provide some context, thus far, I have played 3 games of Civ III:
Game 1 was a regent game as Zulus. I gave up about halfway through as I became increasingly frustrated at the many mistakes I was making due to my unfamiliarity with the new aspects of the game.
Game 2 was a regent game as Iroquois. Won in 1858 via spaceship. Wasn’t real close. Only the Americans had built any other spaceship parts.
Game 3 was a monarch game as Chinese. Won in 1740 via diplomacy. Again, wasn’t real close.
Game 4 will either be Persians on emperor or the GOTM at CivFanatics.
Okay, now on to the PROS, CONS, BUGS and NOTES. Obviously the below assertions and observations are just my opinion, but I think most would agree. I also would like to apologize in advance if some of the points below have been made before by others.
PROS:
- PRODUCTION SYSTEM. No 50% penalty when switching production, no advantage to incremental rush-building, good system of rush-building that under certain govs kills a citizen.
- GAME EDITOR. While still a long ways off from what most of us wish it was, it is an order of magnitude better than what we’ve had in the past (see cons for problems).
- CIVILIZATION “PERSONALITY.” With the civ-specific capabilities and special units, your adversaries seem much less generic making it a little bit easier to pretend you’re not just playing against a computer.
- CULTURE. This has been implemented very well and can be a great focus for the non-militaristic civer.
- MOVEMENT. Great “go to” command. I find that I use the mouse exclusively for unit movement. In addition, there’s no more instances in which partial movement may or may not get you to the next square; now if you have movement left, you can go.
- COMBAT. Unit engagements are simply more fun than they were in Civ II. Although the system has introduced new weaknesses (see cons for problems), several improvements have greatly increased the tactical options. These improvements include the removal of zones of control, unit advancement (don’t you love seeing that unit go Elite?!), the ability to retreat, and bombardment.
- WORKERS/SETTLERS. This system makes sense and works surprisingly well.
- SAVE/RELOAD CHEAT: This has been partially mitigated. I find that when I reload last turn, I get the same result for all randomly determined events (hut results, battle outcomes, pollution, etc). Note that you can get around this by reloading the last turn and invoking an event that requires a random response (such as negotiations with another civ). This will change (cycle?) the random number used for determining events on the subsequent turn. Not that I would ever do that…
- GOLDEN AGE. I like the idea, though I would like to see a few other benefits thrown in, e.g. no penalty for switching governments and other civs become temporarily more acquiescent.
- SMALL WONDERS. This was a fantastic idea. More things to build overall and helps mitigate the crippling effect of not getting a few key wonders.
- HUMOR. Nice humor throughout - I especially liked the options I got when I asked for a revolution (A. “So you want a revolution?” and B. “No, you can count me out”) and the way the Japanese asked for an end to our protracted war (“war, huh, what is it good for – absolutely nothin’!”)
- MUSIC. Although there are a few selections that bug me (namely that John Tesh-like piece from the modern age), the music is overall very good.
- DIPLOMACY. Lots more options and control.
- RESOURCES/TRADE. Thank god I’m not running caravans all over the place to set up trade routes. Trade is handled well through diplomacy and with resources required to built certain units, it makes for more exciting and meaningful negotiations.
CONS:
- NO MULTIPLAYER.
- NO MULTIPLAYER.
- NO MULTIPLAYER. The worst thing about this is I highly doubt we will see multiplayer as a patch. Instead, it will be part of an “expansion pack,” like Civ 2 Gold was. Bastards.
- POOR PACKAGING. Where is my tech tree poster? Where is my quick reference card for resources or terrain or units? Come on! I spend fifty frickin’ dollars! I want something tangible!! Speaking of which, many thanks to Julian Egelstaff for creating a very good reference card (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...&threadid=7359)
- BULKY. What a beast this program is. I’ve got a pretty hefty machine (P-III, 866 MHz w/ 128 MB RAM), but if often takes close to a minute to load a saved game.
- GAME EDITOR. They need to merge the graphical aspect (i.e. icons and unit pics) of mods. Also, how do I do events now and how do I reduce rate/occurrence of pollution?
- COMBAT SYSTEM. Combat is more random than it was in CIV II (in my mod, I’ve increased the hit points from 2,3,4, and 5 to 4,6,8, and 10 to try and average results out a bit more)
- TECH TREE. See my wonderfull insightful post on this topic(http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=36645)
- WASTED PRODUCTION. There is no longer an ability to pool resources and this leads to a big problem. I’m not saying there needs to be a caravan unit, per se, but there needs to be some way I can avoid wasting massive amounts of shields. There are numerous occasions during each game in which I’ve built every city improvement and I’m not interested in building any more military units. So what do I do? I start building a palace (thank God the damn thing is so expensive) and try to switch to something better when/if it comes along. I know there’s the “wealth” option, but it offers very little return. What I’d like to see is the option to build more temples or libraries or cathedrals, which allow for additional (though diminishing return) cultural value. Or let me build additional barracks and invest shields in unit training to increase my unit’s experience level without having to go to war. Or funnel production into more efficient commerce, etc.
- MAGIC ROADS. What is up with the inability to use an opponent’s roads? This must be an awkward attempt at game balance (give defending nation a large advantage), because it makes zero sense otherwise. Just because I am in an opponent’s territory should not mean that the road I’m on suddenly stops functioning. Roads either work or they don’t. I should be able to use another civ’s roads as if they were my own, but I agree that I should NOT benefit from an opponent's railroads.
- RAILROADS. Speaking of railroads, I’ve always disliked the infinite move rule. I had really hoped they were going to change this from previous CIV iterations. An increased movement rate (say 8 or 10) would be much more appropriate. As it is, it is not just unrealistic, it gives WAY too large of an advantage to the defending civ.
- CORRUPTION. At the risk of beating a dead horse, this really is set too high. As it is, the game is just too slow.
BUGS:
- Granaries are not functioning in certain cities. It’s very strange. I see the granary listed under city improvements, but there is no horizontal line at the center point of the food box.
- Airpower. Can’t get air superiority missions to work (I think this is pretty common knowledge by now) and the current treatment is tantamount to long range artillery.
- If I abandon a size 2 city, the resulting settler name is gibberish (looks like a stack overflow).
- Railroads do NOT work as advertised. Civilopedia claims 50% shield increase for squares with RR improvement (as in CIVII). Instead it seems to add 1 shield to mined squares and 1 food to irrigated squares.
- Several of the pop-up advisors refer to me as “Mr. , blah, blah, blah.” This happens at least while I’m in democracy and perhaps at other times. Clearly, there should be some word after “Mr.”
- Upgrading to special units. Perhaps this isn’t a bug, but rather a design decision. If it is, it is a poor one. As the Chinese, I should be able to upgrade my horseman to my knight-equivalent (Rider), rather than having to start from scratch.
- Unit sounds. Some of the units make a strange sound when moving. Example: The Rifleman shoots the whole time it moves. This can’t be intentional.
NOTES/SUGGESTIONS:
- The year won should be listed in the hall of fame screen
- Leaders are a bit too hard to come by, especially considering so much of your success depends on them. I’d really like to see one surefire, non-military method of obtaining a leader (maybe all those extra shields I’m wasting building 10 palaces!)
- The city building aggression of the AI needs to be toned down. That one tundra square on my continent that is not contained in my borders should not be a beacon to my opponents.
- An ironclad should not be able to see/sink my subs.
- Speaking of submarines, these are still not implemented well. In reality, a submarine is a very potent weapon, but as in CIV II, these units remain largely impotent. They should be much more difficult to find.
- The palace view (building my palace) worked fine the first game. Since then, however, it never comes up anymore and I don’t know how to get it back!
- The output/impact of citizen specialists is just too minimal, especially considering it’s not affected by city improvements as it was in CIV II
- City improvements should be able to be sold en masse, especially improvements like walls and granaries which can become obsolete after certain wonders.
- The rush-building interface gets me almost every time. I don’t know how many times I’ve accidentally rush built something I didn’t intend to. This could be idiot-proofed by adding a red “x” to the pop-up.
- I’ve never had the foreign advisor steer me wrong during negotiations. By listening to him, I am assured of the best possible deal every time. Seems a little TOO easy…
- I wanted to have Magellan’s add a harbor to every coastal city. After making the appropriate mod in the bic file, the game added a harbor to EVERY city. Looks kind of strange in the aerial view when a desert city has a floating harbor. There needs to be a way in which the game only adds these improvements where appropriate.
- Anybody know where the attitude advisor is? I’d like to know which cities are threatening to revolt (without having to scroll through all of my cities).
- Why is it that if I win by rank (after retiring), the other civs still mock me? Not that my ego is that fragile, but come on…
- Although the implementation of barbarians is overall more sensible, they really shouldn’t be coming from a static, known village. After all, the common characteristic of virtually all barbarian tribes throughout history is that they were all nomadic (generally because they lacked the desire or knowledge to develop an agrarian culture).
- When a city reverts back to the original owners (which seems to happen too often to me, a culturally dominant Democracy), it shouldn’t take my army and best military units with it!
Again, sorry if many of these things have been mentioned previously. I hope that at least a few of my ideas are new/interesting!