Thank You, Apolytons: Victory at OCC!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Well, as some of you know from the trials and tribulations documented here, I've been trying to win at OCC/ToT after being given what would seem to be an ideal start. And, finally, I did it; third time's a charm, I guess. Now, I'll be happy to receive applause , but what I'm really after are the answers to some questions:

1) In the two games I lost, I controlled the chokepoint and kept enemies off my land; in this game the Greeks snuck troops in and built cities near mine. Yet I won; coincidence, or cause and effect?

2) Upon discovery of Navigation in 1500s, I took time away from building caravans to instead build a caravel and a couple of dips and go in search of other civs; as a result, I ofund the way-underdeveloped Russians and dumped a boatload of tech on them, but I didn't have enough caravans to build my space ship at the rate of 1-part-per-turn. Was I clever, or lucky?

3) In previous games on this map, I could achieve a discover rate of every 2 turns at the end of the game; in this game I couldn't do better that every 4 turns without running a deficit. Yet my sense is that I gave away more techs in this game than in others. How is that possible?

The next post after this one will be the log of the game, for those interested. Thanks again everybody!

------------------
Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[Rufus T. Firefly]

OCC: Croesus of the Lydians. (Modified from Babylonians)
Starting techs: Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial, Code of Laws, Masonry

4000 BC - Sardis founded. City area: 8 plains (including city square), 1 grassland, 1 forest, 1 hill, 10 water. Specials: 2 whales, 1 silk, 1 wheat
3750 BC - Monarcy discovered
3700 BC - Revolution
3650 BC - Monarchy
3350 BC - Bronze working discovered
3050 BC - Goody hut: Warrior Code (argh!)
2850 BC - Writing discovered
2350 BC - Currency discovered
2300 BC - Goody hut: Trade
2100 BC - Contact with Persians. Writing traded for Pottery. Trade given as tribute. Peace treaty signed. Monarchy, Currency, and Code of Laws given as gifts. Persians, though worshipful, reject offer of alliance.
1750 BC - Colossus built. Begin producing caravans
1600 BC - Construction discovered
1350 BC - Persians demand, and get, construction
1000 BC - Literacy discovered
700 BC - Literacy given to Persians
575 BC - Republic discovered. Silk caravan arrives in Persepolis; Persepolis demands silk; 138g
550 BC - Temple built. Revolution
525 BC - Republic
500 BC - WLtCD Mathematics discovered.
475 BC - Hides caravan arrives in Persepolis; Persepolis demands hides; 132g
450 BC - We Love the Counsel Day cancelled
425 BC - Mysticism discovered
400 BC - Library built. Mysticism discovered. We Love the Counsel Day.
325 BC - WLtCD cancelled; Sardis size 7.
275 BC - Marketplace built
250 BC - Golden Age of Philosophy begins in Sardis. Astronomy taken as free tech.
225 BC - Republic, philosophy, mysticism, and mathematics given to Persians. Alliance established. Iron working received as gift.
200 BC - Aquaduct built
75 BC - Colloseum built. Medicine discovered.
50 BC - WLtCD
40 AD - Salt caravan arrives in Persepolis; Persepolis does not demands salt; 142g
60 BC - University discovered
80 BC - WLtCD cancelled; Sardis size 12.
160 AD - Banking discovered
220 AD - University traded to Persians for Bridge Building; Banking traded for Horseback Riding; Astronomy given; 100g received
300 AD - Copernicus' Observatory built
320 AD - Theory of Gravity discovered
440 AD - The Wheel discovered
560 AD - Engineering discovered
680 AD - Shakespeare's Theatre built. Invention discovered. Colosseum sold.
700 AD - Temple sold.
820 AD - Democracy discovered. Invention traded to Persians for Map Making; Engineering traded for Economics; Democracy given; 100g received.
840 AD - Revolution
860 AD - Democracy. Contact with Greeks; 200g given in tribute; peace treaty; Invention, Republic given. Alliance. Polytheism (argh again!) received as gift.
880 AD - Medicine given to Persians; 100g received.
960 AD - Sanitation discovered. (But my food production is 0 and I don't have Seafaring so I can't build a Harbor. And I can't research Seafaring next. Damn!)
1080 AD - Gunpowder discovered. University built.
1160 AD - Seafaring discovered (finally!). Seafaring, engineering, construction, and writing all given to the Greeks, who refuse to give a gift back in spite of their having 1000+g. Grrr.
1200 AD - Harbor built.
1220 AD - University given to Greeks, who still won't cough up any cash. Gunpowder and Seafaring given to Persians, who reciprocate with 150g.
1240 AD - Chemistry discovered.
1260 AD - Sewer system built.
1280 AD - WLtPD
1360 AD - Explosives discovered.
1440 AD - Sanitation traded to Persians for Feudalism; Explosives given; 100g received
1500 AD - Metallurgy discovered. Bank built.
1510 AD - WLtPD cancelled; Sardis size 21. Metallurgy and Chemistry given to Persians. 100g received. Metallurgy and Construction given to the Greeks; 150g received.
1520 AD - Chemistry given to Greeks; 150g received
1530 AD - Isaac Newton's College Built.
1540-1690 AD - Discoveries every 3 turns; Conscription, Navigation, Physics, Atomic Theory, Steam Engine, Magnetism
1710 AD - Stock Exchange built. Steam Engine, Conscription, and Physics given to Persians; 100g received
1720 AD - Electricity discovered
1752 AD - Chivalry discovered
1758 AD - Refrigeration discovered
1762 AD - Steam Engine given to Greeks; 150g received
1766 AD - Railroad discovered
1772 AD - Supermarket built
1774 AD - Industrialization discovered
1778 AD - Industrialization given to Persians; 100g received
1782 AD - Corporation discovered
1790 AD - Steel discovered
1796 AD - Electricity discovered
1804 AD - Refining discovered
1806 AD - WLtPD
1818 AD - Combustion discovered. Contact with Russians; Industrialization, Conscription, Railroad, Steam given. Indsutrialization given to the Greeks; 150g received.
1820 AD - WLtPD cancelled; Sardis size 25
1822 AD - Trade Magnetism to Persians for Tactice; 100g received
1824 AD - Hoover Dam built. Automobile discovered
1832-1848 AD- Discoveries every 4 turns: Machine Tools, Mass Production, Miniaturization, Computers
1850 AD - Research Lab built
1852-1858 AD - Discoveries every 2 years: Mobile Warfare, Robotics, Nuclear Fission, Nuclear Power
1861 AD - Offshore Platform built. Flight discovered
1865 AD - Laser discovered. Mobile Warfare, Robotics, Tactics, Republic, Magnetism and Machine Tools given to Russians
1868 AD - Radio discovered
1870 - Manufacturing Plant built
1871 AD - Advanced Flight discovered
1874 AD - Rocketry discovered
1875 AD - Advanced Flight given to Greeks (they're threatening to dissolve the alliance); Monotheism received (argh!)
1880 AD - Recycling discovered
1884 AD - Space Flight discovered
1885 AD - Apollo Program built
1886 AD - Rocketry given to Greeks
1888 AD - Plastics discovered
1892 AD - Amphibious Warefare discovered. Techs unloaded by the boatful to the Greeks, Persians, and Russians; everybody gets everything they want except Fission, Nuclear Power, and Laser.
1896 AD - Superconductor discovered
1912 AD - Fusion discovered
1915 AD - Launch
1916-1930 AD - Build City Walls, Costal Fortress, SAM Battery, Barracks, lots of Armor; lots of Alpine Troops

[Scouse Gits]

Congratulations! Very well done....

------------------
Scouse Git[1]

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[solo]

Great game Rufus! That first OCC win is the toughest. I think I took many more years than you to land my ship in my first win, so well done, indeed!

[Guest]

*clap* *clap* *clap*

Great job, Rufus! Doesn't it feel good that you didn't give up trying?

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Way to go.. I remember when you were as clueless as I am, Rufus!

Now, why is it I haven't learned anything... wait, never mind...

STYOM

[East Street Trader]

Your questions are good ones, Rufus T, and I'm not convinced that received wisdom on science advances provides definitive answers. But I'll hazard a remark or two based on that received wisdom.

1. There is a (strong) school of thought which says the beaker count required for techs is influenced by proximity to the A1; distant location = penalty increase to beaker count. Now if your early research rate was quicker in this game, maybe you were benefiting from that (so some cause and effect) - but you were noticeably slower later which doesn't fit. Go figure, as Smash would say.

2. You were clever. There is another (v. strong) school of thought that says improving the most backward civ (and, probably, the second most backward) has the most effect on beaker count. Anyway, for myself, I like to speculate something in an OCC to add interest. Too rigid an adherence to the Gospel according to St Paul takes a little something from the game. Of course you then have to get lucky to bring in the speculation. I still remember falling just two miserable squares short of being able to bribe a barb ship in a landlocked OCC - reckon if I'd got it the trading benefits would have won me some boasting rights on that one).

3. A point on beaker rate in which I have more confidence is the proposition that if one or two A1 civs get wiped out your beaker rate will suffer a lot. So if you remember hearing that funerary dirge a time or two while this game progressed that might explain your slower rate. And if the A1 were fighting among themselves that might also explain one or two of them not challenging you so strongly this time around.

Lastly a point I noted in your log (and which is fresh in my mind because I belatedly realised I'd overlooked it when I took a turn in the OCC bloodlust succession game recently). What I noted is you established all your three routes with Persepolis. That seems to me something which will very often be the right thing to do in an OCC. Reason I say that, the city with which you establish your first trade route will almost certainly get more arrows from that route than any other city is getting from the A1s own puny arrow building efforts. And this is not a short term feature because the route is going to get progressively more valuable as your city grows. A fortiori after the second route goes in.

Perhaps you did the same thing in the earlier games. But if not that may be another aspect where you effected an improvement.