OCC fortnight #13 - discussion and logs

[Paul]

As I mentioned in the occ12 thread vik sent me a scenario for occ13. Download it here.

[Scouse Gits]

I'll be there - got to finish #12 first - what a slog I'm making of it 1864 just researching Combustion, but top of the tree with an enormous non-army and everyone else still in Monarchy!!


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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Tom DeMille]

SG1, the AI is stuck in Monarchy, just as you are stuck in Fundamentalism. I purposefully switched all the AIs out of despotism before saving out the scenario.

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks for that Tom - I've been sh*tting myself thinking what will happen when the English or French switch to a representative government (or even Commie) and their research rockets - hence the large army and the even larger Spy Corps in reserve for that fateful day ....
Cool:

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[tonic]

Tom, a quick clarification on the AI govt. fix in OCC12 - it's not Monarchy all the way through is it? I was having the trouble in my game because there were two Democracies and two Republics from the mid-game onwards!

[Tom DeMille]

Tonic, I set all of them to Monarchy initially, and assumed that since I was forbidden to switch governments, they would be too. They all stayed Monarchy in my game, but maybe they have the same option as you do when they trade for a government advance - a one time chance at revolution.

So SG1, you might still have to contend with a Democracy or two.

[Tom DeMille]

Good setup Vik. I expect your intention was for our reputation to take a beating so that diplomatic relations would suffer for the rest of the game. My reputation fell to dishonorable until 880AD, when it changed to questionable. With my bad reputation, AIs refused to form alliances with me. I started to prepare for a build up of my military by building a diplomat in 950BC (a secondary purpose of this was to bribe a boat). In the end bribing a bunch of NONE units for defence proved unneccessary.

Strangely, when I switched to Republic, I was able to form alliances with all 4 AIs I had contact with. This made the rest of the game pretty straightforward. It took me a while to get all my land improved, but once done I had plenty of gold coming in with 1 advance every 2 turns. I was even able to keep up that advance rate after flight.

v242, deity

3950BC - chariot (hut)
Bronze Working (Persians destroyed)
Ceremonial Burial (Vikings destroyed)
Alphabet, Code of Laws (Carthaginians destroyed)
Sioux destroyed
founded Cardiff
3900BC - Monarchy! (hut)
3850BC - switched to Monarchy
3800BC - 50 gold (hut)
3700BC - built warrior
3500BC - Mysticism (hut), built warrior
3300BC - archers NONE (hut), built warrior
3250BC - chariot NONE (hut), peace with Indians
3200BC - archers NONE (hut)
3150BC - built Temple, Pottery (hut)
3050BC - Warrior Code (Japanese), peace with Japanese, barbarians (hut)
3000BC - barbarians (hut), 50 gold (hut)
2700BC - 100 gold & peace with Spanish
2650BC - 25 gold (Indians, Japanese)
2450BC - barbarians (hut)
2350BC - Currency (hut)
2150BC - Trade
2050BC - 50 gold (Japanese)
2000BC - built Colossus
1800BC - built Gems caravan
1500BC - built Hides caravan
1450BC - Writing, 50 gold (Indians, Japanese), 25 gold (Spanish)
Germans - Masonry, 100 gold, peace
1400BC - 168 gold - 1st trade route (Dye to Madrid), 150 gold (barbarian ransom), built wine caravan, disband warrior
1350BC - built Library
1300BC - Map Making, Feudalism (Spanish)
share maps with Spanish and Germans
1250BC - built Marketplace
1050BC - 56 gold - 2nd trade route (Hides to Madrid)
1000BC - begin WLTKD (pop is 6), 44 gold - 3rd trade route (Wine to Seville)
950BC - Construction, built diplomat
share maps with Japanese
900BC - Mathematics (Germans), Iron Working (Spanish)
825BC - Legion NONE (hut)
800BC - 50 gold (Japanese), 25 gold (Spanish), 100 gold (Indians)
750BC - Literacy
600BC - 128 gold (Hides to Toledo), 50 gold (hut, Indians)
525BC - Philosophy, The Republic, revolution, siwtched to The Republic, Legion NONE (hut), begin WLTCD (pop is 6)
500BC - built Colosseum, 140 gold (Hides to Toledo), disband warrior
475BC - built Aqueduct, disband warrior, 184 gold (Hides to Osaka)
Alliance with Japanese, Spanish, Germans, Indians
425BC - 172 gold (Hides to Toledo)
400BC - Astronomy
375BC - built Copernicus' Observatory, sold colosseum
350BC - end WLTCD (pop is 12)
300BC - Medicine
200BC - The Wheel
175BC - Seafaring & 100 gold (Spanish), 75 gold (Japanese), 50 gold (Germans), 25 gold (Indians)
75BC - Engineering, sold temple
50BC - built Sakespeare's Theatre
40AD - Sanitation, begin WLTCD (pop is 12)
60AD - built Sewer System
100AD - built settler
120AD - end WLTCD (pop is 15), 250 gold (from AIs)
140AD - University
180AD - built University
220AD - Bridge Building
260AD - Navigation (Spanish), 175 gold (from AIs)
280AD - Theory of Gravity, Bribed Greek Trireme
300AD - Chemistry (Indians)
Greeks - Polytheism, peace, share maps
360AD - Invention, begin WLTCD (pop is 16)
420AD - end WLTCD (pop is 18)
460AD - Banking
480AD - built Sir Isaac Newton's College
500AD - Democracy, revolution
520AD - built Bank, disband settler
540AD - switched to Democracy, built spice caravan
Americans - peace, share maps
560AD - begin WLTPD (pop is 18), 175 gold (from allies)
600AD - Gunpowder, war with greeks
620AD - size 21
640AD - Explosives, end WLTPD (pop is 22)
660AD - 220 gold (spice to Toledo), built Engineer
680AD - Economics, Physcis (Spanish)
700AD - built Engineer
720AD - Magnetism
760AD - Metallurgy
800AD - Electricity
840AD - Refrigeration
860AD - built supermarket
880AD - Steam Engine, alliance with Americans (reputation has changed from dishonorable to questionable), 300 gold (from allies)
920AD - Railroad
960AD - Industrialization, 142 gold (spice to Barcelona)
980AD - begin WLTPD (pop is 20)
1000AD - The Corporation, 200 gold (allies), 150 gold (wine to Satsuma)
1020AD - built Engineer
1040AD - Steel, peace with Greeks
1060AD - built Darwin's Voyage, Refining, Combustion, Conscription (Americans), Chivalry (Greeks)
1100AD - Automobile, sell sewer system
1120AD - build superhighways, end WLTPD (pop is 25), sell aqueduct
1140AD - Electronics
1180AD - Leadership
1220AD - Tactics, Atomic Theory (Indians)
1260AD - Machine Tools
1300AD - Miniturization
1340AD - Mass Production, 1074 gold (Cloth to Washington)
1360AD - Computers
1380AD - Mobile Warfare
1400AD - Robotics, built Factory, 494 gold (Spice to Barcelona)
1420AD - Flight, built Hydro Plant, 765 gold (Wine to Washington)
1440AD - Radio
1480AD - Advanced Flight
1510AD - Rocketry
1530AD - Space Flight
1540AD - Apollo Program, disband 3rd Engineer
1550AD - Plastics
1580AD - Nuclear Fission
1610AD - Nuclear Power
1640AD - The Laser
1670AD - Superconductor
1700AD - Nuclear Power
1750AD - Stealth
1756AD - Launch 15-3-3-1-1-1 spaceship
built a bunch of defensive units, but they were'nt needed
1758AD - Communism
1771AD - Landing on AC



[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited July 17, 2000).]

[vik]

Tom,

That's pretty cool you managed to get some workable alliances. Although I fear once again I have submitted a scenario that will be doubly difficult for the MPGE players.

It seems like (you and me, anyways) have evolved our scenarios into taking one important OCC aspect away. Last time, you took WeLuv and the extra trade arrows out of it, this time I took away your spotless reputation. Earlier, I tried to take away contact (for as long as possible) and trade routes. It's pretty interesting.

Luckily, when I test played, the spanish always built a city two squares south of my southern rock. That way, I could post a sentry there and not violate his city squares. I was able to bribe several barbs that went to attack this city. Cheap NON units.

take care.

[Tom DeMille]

quote: It seems like (you and me, anyways) have evolved our scenarios into taking one important OCC aspect away.

Yes, although for me it's a matter of just making the scenario "different".

Speaking of which, I've just thought up my next scenario. It will involve only a single AI opponent (with no restarting dead civs). Kind of the opposite of the current scenario where you have to kill off 4 neighbours right away. This time, if you kill the AI civ off the game ends.

I'm going to play the game through to see if Raging Hordes produces too many barbarians for the AI civ to handle. Might have to lower the barb activity in this one.

[Scouse Gits]

Well -- I refused to play the game and migrated to an alternative site to the East - result - a fairly abysmal game, but I enjoyed it after the monster slog of FOCC
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"Boxed in" OCC - v2.42 - deity

Monarchy -1250
Republic -125
Democracy 860

Colossus -1100
Copernicus 280
Shakespeare 580
Newton 980
Darwin 1300
Apollo 1790

AC 1853

Trade#1 -425
Trade#2 -275
Trade#3 -200

Size 12 120
Size 21 720

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Comments: Moral dilemma on turn 1 - this could be the shortest ever OCC I have ever played, but I'm not going to take out four civs at 3950BC - [self-justification]it's not the greatest starting site anyway [/self-justification]. The hut is East so we go East ...
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3950 hut: Warrior Code; Bronze Working & Ceremonial Burial from our friends
3900 Sioux: Alphabet & Code of Laws + Alliance;
3700 found river complex with Whale, Silk, blank & ?
3550 hut: Chariot
3500 hut: Writing
3400 Settlers arrive at potential city site Whale, 2*Silk + 3 river squares not bad, but is it good enough???; hut: Archers
3350 Its going to have to be: Liverpool FOUNDED
3250 hut: 50g; hut: Currency
3150 hut: 25g; now I find a 2 Whale, 2 Wheat, 6 river square site - such is life!
2750 hut: Archers (Liverpool)
2700 Library
2200 hut: 100g
2000 Japanese: The Wheel & Horseback Riding
1350 Monarchy; Revolution
1250 MONARCHY
1100 COLOSSUS; Spanish: Alliance, 50g
0900 Japanese: Alliance, 200g
0875 Marketplace
0750 TRADE; hut: 50g
0725 Temple; hut: 100g
0700 allies: 100g
0650 allies: 100g
0425 DYE to MADRID: 76g
0400 hut: Horsemen
0375 allies: Map Making, Iron Working
0350 allies: 400g
0300 allies: 325g
0275 SILK to PERSEPOLIS: 96g
0225 allies: 50g
0200 GEMS to LITTLE BIGHORN: 132g; Philosophy -> The Republic; Revolution
0150 allies: 100g
0125 REPUBLIC
0100 WLCD starts @ 4; allies: 25g
0050 Colosseum
-------
AD20 Aqueduct;
0040 Size 8
0120 Astronomy; allies: 125g + War with Sioux & Carthage; WLCD stops @ 12
0200 allies: Bridge Building & 150g; Hides to Toledo: 140g
0240 Astronomy; Hides to Toledo: 140g; Vikings dissolve alliance
0280 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
0300 Hides to Toledo: 140g
0340 allies: 50g
0420 Engineering; allies: 25g
0500 Beads to Madrid: 104g; allies: 75g
0520 Sanitation
0540 Sewage System; WLCD starts @ 12
0580 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE; allies: Invention
0600 allies: 50g
0640 Gems to Madrid: 210g
0660 allies: 50g
0680 Seafaring
0720 WLCD ends @ 21; allies: 100g
0740 Banking
0780 Bank
0800 allies: 200g
0820 Democracy; Revolution
0860 Democracy established; allies: 250g
0900 Gunpowder
0920 allies: 175g
0940 Theory of Gravity
0960 Coal to Madrid: 74g
0980 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE; Chemistry; allies: 300g
1020 Explosives
1100 Navigation; allies: 200g
1140 Physics
1180 Steam Engine; Dye to Madrid: 150g
1200 allies: Polytheism & 200g
1220 Railroad
1260 Magnetism; allies: 250g
1300 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Electricity, REFRIGERATION
1320 allies: 150g
1340 Supermarket; Economics; Coal to Passargadae: 88g
1360 WLPD starts @ 19; Silver to Trondheim: 127g; allies: 150g
1400 Industrialisation
1420 allies: 150g
1440 WLPD stops @ 23
1460 The Corporation
1480 allies: 175g
1500 Refining
1510 Gold to Seville: 142g
1520 Combustion; allies: Feudalism + 125g
1580 Stock Exchange; AUTOMOBILE;
1590 Silver to Cordoba: 154g
1600 Electronics; Superhighways
1660 allies: Communism & 100g; Silver to Cordoba: 445g
1720 WLPD starts @ 23
1752 Miniaturisation; WLPD stops @ 27
1754 Offshore Platform
1756 COMPUTERS
1758 Silver to Cordoba: 465g; Research Laboratory
1764 Factory; Robotics
1768 Power Plant; Flight
1770 allies: Monotheism + 400g
1776 Manufacturing Plant; Advanced Flight
1782 Rocketry
1788 SPACE FLIGHT
1790 APOLLO PROGRAM; allies: Atomic Theory + 450g
1794 Structural#2; Plastics
1800 Structural#4: Component#1; Nuclear Fission
1806 Structural#4: Component#4; Nuclear Power
1812 Structural#5: Component#6; The Laser
------
The Japanese have just taken out the Carthaginians, the Persians, the Vikings and the Sioux on consecutive turns!!!
------
1820 Structural#9: Component#6; Superconductor; allies: 50g
1826 Structural#9: Component#6: Module#3; Fusion Power
1834 Stealth
1836 LAUNCH 15:3:3:1:1:1 for 1853
Much to my surprise the alliances held
1853 landed AC



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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Tom DeMille]

SG1, it never occured to me to avoid the starting site, not kill off my neighbours, and go looking for an alternative site.

I guess deep down I'm a bloodthirsty warmonger .

[Paul]

I landed in 1815. Not bad considering that I didn't get Monarchy from a hut in 3900 BC (lucky Tom ) and three of the four civs I killed restarted away from the main continent.

To me the thought did occur to let them live, but with the four wheat (minable to silk) this looked like the intended starting site. Besides, I didn't know if there would be any other decent city sites nearby.

AC: 1815

Monarchy: -1450
Republic: -25
Democracy: 940

Colossus: -1800
Copernicus: 220
Shakespeare: 400
Newton: 860
Darwin: 1510
Apollo: 1752

Trade routes: -375, -325, -275

Size 12: 120
Size 21: 740

Trade: -700
Construction: -275
Sanitation: 500
Refrigeration: 1240
Automobile: 1510
Computers: 1610
Space Flight: 1750


3950 BC Hut: Masonry
Vikings: trade Ceremonial Burial
Persians: trade Bronze Working
Carthaginians: trade Code of Laws, Alphabet
Destroy Vikings, Persians, Carthaginians, Sioux
Cardiff
3800 BC Hut: Warrior Code
3750 BC Hut: Barbarians
3700 BC Warrior
3600 BC Spanish: trade Pottery; peace
Hut: 25 gold
2550 BC Hut: Archer
3450 BC Warrior
Hut: 50 gold
3350 BC Hut: Writing
3300 BC Japanese: peace
3000 BC Hut: Barbarians
2750 BC Hut: 50 gold
2200 BC Japanese: trade Iron Working
Spanish: tribute 50 gold
1850 BC Japanese: tribute 25 gold
Spanish: tribute 50 gold
1800 BC Colossus
Hut: Horsemen
1600 BC Monarchy, revolution
1450 BC Gov: Monarchy
Japanese: tribute 50 gold
Spanish: tribute 50 gold
1400 BC Library
1150 BC Granary
975 BC Currency
Hut: 50 gold
Japanese: tribute 50 gold
Spanish: trade Horseback Riding
950 BC Marketplace
875 BC Spanish: alliance; gift 100 gold
Japanese: alliance; gift Map Making
850 BC Temple
825 BC Japanese: share maps
800 BC Spanish: share maps
725 BC Hut: Chariot
700 BC Trade
Hut: Seafaring
675 BC Build Gems Caravan
Hut: 50 gold
650 BC Hut: 25 gold
625 BC Build Hides Caravan
550 BC Hut: Feudalism
500 BC Hut: 50 gold
475 BC Build Wine Caravan
375 BC Mysticism
Gems to Toledo (demanded): 162 gold
350 BC Build Hides Caravan
Spanish: trade Literacy; share maps
325 BC Hides to Kyoto (not demanded): 64 gold
300 BC Build Hides Caravan
Greeks: peace; share maps
275 BC Construction
Wine to Madrid (not demanded): 62 gold
250 BC Build Cloth Caravan
Hut: Barbarians
200 BC Build Hides Caravan
Japanese: share maps; gift 75 gold
Spanish: share maps; gift 125 gold
150 BC Build Hides Caravan
Hides to Madrid (demanded): 124 gold
100 BC Colosseum
75 BC Republic, revolution
Japanese: gift 200 gold
Greeks: war
50 BC Build Hides Caravan
Sold Granary
25 BC Gov: Republic
Start WLTCD, size 6
1 AD Aqueduct
20 AD Hides to Valencia (demanded): 160 gold
40 AD Build Hides Caravan
80 AD Build Hides Caravan
120 AD Build Hides Caravan
Mathematics
End WLTCD, size 12
Sold Colosseum
Cloth to Osaka (not demanded): 130 gold
140 AD Hides to Madrid (not demanded): 116 gold
180 AD Hides to Madrid (not demanded): 116 gold
Allies: share maps
200 AD Astronomy
Hides to Madrid (not demanded): 116 gold
Japanese: gift 50 gold
Spanish: gift 125 gold
Greeks: cease fire
220 AD Copernicus' Observatory
Hides to Madrid (not demanded): 116 gold
Greeks: war
240 AD Spanish: trade Philosophy; gift 250 gold
Hut: Elephant
260 AD Build Gems Caravan
280 AD Medicine
Hides to Madrid (not demanded): 120 gold
300 BC Build Dye Caravan
Sold Temple
320 AD Japanese: gift 100 gold
360 AD Wheel
Japanese: gift 50 gold
380 AD Japanese: gift 100 gold
400 AD Shakespeare's Theatre
420 AD Greeks: war
460 AD Engineering
480 AD Hides to Osaka (not demanded): 136 gold
Dye to Madrid (demanded): 272 gold
Start WLTCD, size 12
500 AD Sanitation
Bribe Japanese Trireme: 154 gold
Spanish: gift 125 gold
Greeks: peace
520 AD Sewer System
540 AD French: war
560 AD Build Gold Caravan
600 AD Build Gems Caravan
University
620 AD Spanish: gift 250 gold
French: cease fire; trade Banking; share maps
640 AD University
680 AD Bank
Theory of Gravity
Hut: Barbarians
Japanese: gift 25 gold
740 AD End WLTCD, size 21
Spanish: trade Bridge Building
780 AD Economics
800 AD Japanese: gift 150 gold
Spanish: gift 125 gold
Greeks: war
French: peace
840 AD Invention
Spanish: gift 150 gold
860 AD Isaac Newton's College
Americans: peace
880 AD Chemistry
900 AD Build Spice Caravan
920 AD Democracy
Gold to Valencia (demanded): 288 gold
Bribe French Trireme: 188 gold
Revolution
French: war
Americans: trade Chivalry
940 AD Gov: Democracy
960 AD Stock Exchange
Bank sold (not enough money)
Spanish: trade Navigation; share maps
Greeks: cease fire; share maps
French: cease fire; share maps
980 AD Gunpowder
Gems to Lyons (demanded): 676 gold
French: peace
Greeks: peace
1000 AD Bank
1020 AD Explosives
Hut: 50 gold
Japanese: gift 25 gold
1040 AD Engineer
Hut: 100 gold
1060 AD Physics
Japanese: gift 50 gold
1080 AD Engineer
1100 AD Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
Start WLTPD, size 19
1120 AD Metallurgy
Japanese: gift 100 gold
1160 AD Magnetism
Spice to Madrid (demanded): 279 gold
1180 AD Indians: peace; share maps
End WLTPD, size 22
1200 AD Build Dye Caravan
Electricity
French: trade Leadership
Spanish: gift 125 gold
1240 AD Refrigeration
1260 AD Supermarket
1280 AD Steam Engine
Japanese: gift 50 gold
Americans: share maps
1300 AD Engineer
1320 AD Railroad
1340 AD Engineer
1360 AD Industrialization
1400 AD Corporation
1460 AD Factory
Steel
1500 AD Build Cloth Freight
Refining
French: war
Spanish: gift Atomic Theory
1510 AD Darwin's Voyage: Combustion, Automobile
Start WLTPD, size 20
1520 AD Superhighways
Electronics
Dye to Bangalore (demanded): 970 gold
1530 AD Mass Production
Japanese: trade Conscription; gift 50 gold
1550 AD Tactics
1570 AD Machine Tools
1580 AD Japanese: gift Polytheism
Spanish: gift 200 gold
End WLTPD, size 28
Sold Sewer System
1590 AD Miniaturization
1610 AD Computers
Sold Aqueduct
1620 AD Research Lab
Hut: 100 gold
1630 AD Mobile Warfare
1640 AD Power Plant
1650 AD Robotics
1670 AD Flight
1690 AD Radio
1710 AD Manufacturing Plant
Advanced Flight
Gold to Delphi (demanded): 324 gold
1730 AD Rocketry
1750 AD Space Flight
1752 AD Apollo Program
1756 AD Plastics
1762 AD Nuclear Fission
1768 AD Nuclear Power
1774 AD Laser
1780 AD Superconductor
1786 AD Fusion Power
1792 AD Communism
1798 AD Guerilla Warfare
1800 AD Launch
1801 AD Barracks
Labor Union
1803 AD Recycling
1805 AD Mass Transit
Environmentalism
1806 AD Sold Power Plant
1807 AD Solar Plant
1808 AD SAM
1809 AD Japanese: cancel alliance
1815 AD Arrival at Alpha Centauri

[geofelt]

In the opening hut, I got 25 gold, so I decided to escape. I found a decent site, but it had defense problems. I got an alliance with the spanish who soon dominated the world. As soon as I got space flight, they attacked, and I could not survive.

[Smash]

I think I may have had an OCC 1st.For me anyhow.Due to a cursed Japanese destroyer sneak attack,I lost my 2 engineers late.The result was global warming.Rather embarrasing,when you think my 1 city threw the world into catastrophic climate changes resulting in world wide famine.

I actually thought I was going to be destroyed late by the evil Japanese but I managed to squeak thru.


3950-destroy Vikings-Burial-destroy Souix-Alphabet-destory Carths-Code of Laws-destroy Persians-Bronze Working-hut-chariot-Cardiff founded
3900-hut 25 gold
3800-warrior-start Collosus
3750-hut-Horseback Riding
3700-hut-horseman-NON-hut-archer-supported
3650-contact Spain-peace-gift all
3500-hut-Monarchy-revolt-hut-Pottery
3450-govt-Monarchy-contact Japan-gift all-Monarchy to Spain
3250-hut-50 gold
3200-contact Mongols-gift all-peace
3150-hut-Map Making-gift to all 3-only Spain won’t share maps
3100-hut-archer-NON
2850-hut-barb horseman-terminated
2550-tribute Japan 50-Spain 100-Mongols 25
2400-hut-100 gold
2300-tribute-Mongols 50
2250-Collosus-wheat>silk
2150-hut-50 gold
2050-Writing
2000-library-hut-archer-NON-gift Writing to all
1850-tribute-Mongols 50
1650-Currency-hut-horseman-NON-gift Currency to Japan-
1600-Chinese destroyed by Mongols-least restart is on
1550-contact Germans-trade Writing and Map Making for Masonary and Mysticism-peace-gift all-share maps-
1500-gift Myst to Japan,Spain and Mongols
1450-gift Mason to Japan-trade Germans Currency for Construction
1300-temple
1250-tribute-Japan-50-Spain 50-Mongols 50
1000-Trade
975-gems caravan-trade Mongols Trade for Warrior Code
950-disband warrior
925-wine caravan
900-tribute-Japan-100-Spain 100-Germans-25-Mongols declare war
875-hides caravan-gift Warrior Code to Japan,Germans and Spain-peace with Mongols
850-hut-barb horseman-terminated-gift Trade to Japan,Germany and Spain-share maps with Germans
775-gems arrive in Madrid(demanded)168
750-we love the king-wheat>silk
725-colliseum
675-hides caravan-disband archer-hides arrives in Madrid 76-wine 76
650-Literacy-hides caravan-trade Spain Construction for Math-gift literacy-alliance-Mongols declare war
625-disband horseman-gift Construction,Math and Literacy to Japan-alliance-gift Literacy to Germany-gift Math and Literacy to Mongols-peace
600-hides caravan
550-hides caravan
500-The Republic-revolt
450-gift Republic to all=Math and Construction to Germans-alliance
425-Government-Republic-hides to Valencia(demanded) 96
400-start “we love” size 6-2 hides to Madrid @76
375-Philosophy>Astronomy-”we love” cancelled oops-gift Philosophy to all-Japan gifts 75-Spain 125-hides to Valencia(demanded)108
350-”we love” 7-Mongols declare war
325-aquaduct-disband horseman
300-caravan-disband horseman
275-caravan-disband archer
250-caravan
225-caravan-end “we love” 12-sell colliseum
200-caravan
175-Medicine-Cope’s-Japan gifts 100-Germans 25
125-caravan-Japan gifts 50-Germans 25
100-share maps with Japan and Spain-trade Spain Astronomy for Iron Working
75-The Wheel-caravan-gift Iron to Mongols-ceasefire
50-gift Iron to Japan-receive 50-Astronomy and Iron to Germans-The Wheel to Spain-The Wheel and Astronomy to Mongols
25-caravan-Wheel to Japan and Germans-Germans gift 50
--------------
AD1-Japan gifts 50
20-Engineering-caravan-gift Engineering to all-share maps with Germans
60-caravan-sell temple
80-Shake’s
100-Sanitation-Germans gift 50-Spain 100
120-start “we love” 12
140-sewer system-gift Sanitation to all-Japan gifts 50-Germans 50
220-Banking
240-bank
300-end “we love” 21
320-University-trade Japan Univers for Bridge Building-recieve 50-Banking to Germans-Medicine to Spain receive 75-gift all to Mongols-peace
340-build university
380-Gravity-gold caravan-Japan gifts 50
420-caravan
440-Invention-Spainish cancel alliance-gift Invention to to Japan,Germany and Mongols
460-caravan
500-Democracy-revolt-caravan-
520-gift Astronomy to Japan-receive 50-Mongols declare war Spain declares war
540-Govt-Democracy-caravan-gold arrives in Valencia(demanded)195
560-gift Democracy to Japan and Germany
580-Economics-caravan-various tech gifting-Can’t find Americans-Spain has decided to rid the world of my worthless civilization-Mongols have also decided this
620-caravan
640-Gunpowder
660-caravan
680-Sir Ike’s-Chemistry
720-Explosives-stock exchange-gift GP to all-Chemistry to Spain-ceasefire-ceasefire with Mongols
740-”we love” 21
760-Metallurgy-engineer-disband horseman-Spainish and Mongols declare war-this is getting tired
780-engineer
800-Seafaring-end “we love”21-Japan gifts 100-gift Saefaring to Germany-receive 50
820-cloth caravan
840-Navigation-gift Seafaring and Navigation to Mongols ceasefire-gift metallurgy and Explosives to Spain-ceasefire-Navigation and Metallurgy to Japan-Navigation and Explosives to Germany
860-Spice caravan-Seafaring to Japan-Chemistry to Germany-gift Metallurgy and Explosives to Mongols-Spain declare war-No threat no nothing just a declaration
880-Physics-gfit Physics to all-ceasefire with Spain-peace with Mongols-Japan gifts 100-Germany 50
900-diplomat
920-Magnetism-gift to all
940-caravan
960-Electricity-gift to all
980-caravan
1000-Refrigeration-Japan gifts 100-Germany 50-Spain declares war-trade Mongols Refrigeration for Feudalism
1020-supermarket-gift Feudal to Japan and Germany
1040-Steam Engine-gift Refrig to Japan and Germany
1060-caravan-gift Syeam to all-ceasefire with Spain
1080-Railroad
1100-caravan-Germany gifts 50
1120-Industrialization-cloth arrives in Kyoto 80+new route
1140-caravan-”we love” 21
1180-The Corporation-spice to Kyoto-80+new route
1200-Darwin’s>Steel>Refining-gift RR to all-Japan and Germany each gift 50
1240-Combustion-gold freight-gift Idustrialization to Japan and Germany-Spain and Mongols declare war
1280-Automobile-freight-Indust to Mongols and Spain-ceasefires-end “we love” 27
1320-Electronics-superhighway-sell sewer-Japan and Germany each gift 50
1340-sell aquaduct-share maps with Japan as they report English attack-cant see em-just a lone warrior-share maps with Germans-Washington offshore-no sign of England
1360-Mass Production-freight-Japan gifts 100
1380-bribe Spanish elephant 370-disbanded
1400-Conscription-freight-trade Japan Conscript for Communism-fishin for Chivalry
1420-Germans gift 50
1440-Chivalry-freight-gold to Kyoto 241+new route
1480-Leadership-freight
1510-Tactics-freight-trade Japan Tactics for Atomic Theory-receive 50
1530-Machine Tools-freight
1550-Miniaturization-freight
1570-Computers
1580-research lab
1590-Mobile Warfare
1600-freight=Japan gifts Polytheism-contact Americans-gift a bunch-peace-share maps-contact England-war
1610-Robotics-pay England 50-ceasefire-much gifting-share maps
1620-factory
1630-Flight
1640-power plant-more tech gifting-Germans gift 50
1650-Radio-freight
1660-Spain declares war-freight-bribe Spanish explorer 235
1670-Advanced Flight
1680-Mmanufacturing plant
1690-Rocketry-freight
1710-Space Flight-ceasefire with Spain
1730-Plastics
1740-Apollo
1750-Nuclear Fission
1752-Germans cancel alliance
1754-Nuclear Power
1756-trade Japan Steel for Amphib Warfare-they then cancel alliance
1760-The Laser-England declares war-bribe English chariot 103-disbanded
1766-Superconductor
1770-Japan declares war
1774-bribe japanes calvary 459
1776-Fusion Power-sell research lab
1778-sell university
1780-sell library
1784-bribe Japanese cavalry 450-disbanded
1792-Japan kills my engineers-gonna get dirty
1798-bribe japanes marine 396
1800-bribe English catapult 154
1802-bribe Japanes cannon 394-I’m fightin for my life here
1808-15-3-3-1-1-1 launch-can i hang on ? I may see global warming 7 tiles polluted now
09-alpine troop
10-howitzer-9 tiles now polluted
11-howitzer
12-revolt
14-govt-Communism-armor
15-famine-armor
1817-GLOBAL WARMING OCCURS-armor
19-armor-down to size 21
21-armor 14 polluted tiles
22-peace with Japan
1823-ARRIVAL AC-phew!

Wonders
Collosus-2250BC
Cope’s-175BC
Shake’s-80AD
Sir Isaac’s-680AD
Darwin’s-1200AD
Apollo-1740AD

Governments
Monarchy-3450BC
Republic-425BC
Democracy-540AD

Trade
1st-775BC
2nd-675BC
3rd-675BC

Trade-1000BC
Construction-1450BC
Sanitation-100
Refrigeration-1000
Automobile-1280
Computers-1570
Space Flight-1710

[tonic]

The starting site with the four wheat and the river junction was too tempting to resist. So I held my breath and plunged into Vik’s dishonourable reputation handicap. As it turned out, like Paul, I had in essence only 3 other AI civs on my continent. And I suffered from the Tom deM Effect as well when the silly AI plopped the second generation Germans sandwiched between Beijing and Shanghai and it took no time for the powerful Spanish to finish Berlin off. The third generation French was nowhere to be found until the end of the mid-game. I reckon that was the main reason for my inability to get the 2 science per turn in the later mid-game (besides less than ideal micro-management, that is ). It would have been advisable with hindsight to have deferred getting Darwin’s Voyage until later when the science rate was four rather than two turns.

The reputation (or lack thereof) was a handicap as I could not make alliances with the Japanese and the Chinese despite their being Cordial to Enthusiastic most of the time and my constant gifting them with science. Essentially I only got gifts (and some exchanges) from the rich and powerful Spanish with occasional supplements from the skint Greeks. Pleased to have landed AC this time.

Great work again you scenarists (Tom and vik, currently) in finding new twists requiring non-routine problem solving in OCC.

BTW what do others think of the suggestion to have the variables unique to a particular comparison game (especially the later ones with their interesting twists) listed with the usual comparison data. This would give a better overall picture of each OCCer’s results.
For example in OCC12, one variable might be the types of government chosen by the AI civs. And for OCC13 the number of off-shore civs one had to contend with and also if like me you also had to put up with a 3rd generation civ. And also whether as in SG[1]’s (and geofelt’s) case, a different starting site was chosen.

2.42 Deity

AC: 1851

Monarchy: -2450
Republic: -425
Democracy: 620

Colossus: -2350
Copernicus: 60
Shakespeare: 160
Newton: 600
Darwin: 1180
Apollo: 1786

Trade routes: -1800, -1500, -1300

Size 12: -350
Size 21: 420

Trade: -3150
Construction: -1100
Sanitation: 220
Refrigeration: 1120
Automobile: 1630
Computers: 1690
Space Flight: 1784


3950 BC hut=archer Persians destroyed: Bronze Working, Sioux destroyed: Alphabet, Vikings destroyed: Ceremonial Burial, Carthaginians destroyed: Code of Laws + 1 gold.
Tonicity founded
3900 research Monarchy hut=50
3600 hut=currency hut=100
3550 Japanese peace
3500 hut=chariot Japanese: Ceremonial Burial
3450 Japanese: alphabet
3400 Japanese: currency
3350 hut=horse
3250 Japanese: Code of laws
3150 hut=trade
3000 hut=50 Japanese: tribute 25 hut=50
2950 Spanish exchange Ceremonial Burial for pottery, peace tribute 50, Japanese pottery
2900 Spanish: alphabet, Japanese: Trade
2850 Spanish: Code of Laws
2800 Spanish: Currency, Japanese: Trade
2700 hut=50 give Spanish trade
2650 hut=monarchy! Chinese peace, no alliance Germans exchange trade for mysticism
Spanish exchange mysticism for horsebackriding
2600 Germans: Pottery, Chinese: Trade
2500 hut = horseman Chinese: alphabet and pottery, Germans: pottery and currency
2450 govt Monarchy
2400 researchWriting hut=barb , myhorse kilt barbhorse vetted, Japanese tribute 50 Spanish 25, Germans: horsebackriding Chinese: monarchy
2350 Colossus Code of Laws to Germans, Mysticism to Chinese,
2300 no tribute from Germans and Chinese, hut=50, Japanese: horsebackriding, to Spanish: monarchy
2250 Chinese: Horsebackriding, Germans refuse science
2200 hut=horseman,
2100 hut=mapmaking, Japanese, Germans & Spanish: mapmaking, Chinese: Code of Laws
2050 Dye caravan built, Chinese: ceremonial burial, other 3 ask to sharemaps but none did
1950 hut=25, Germans tribute 25, Chinese 50
1900 Gems-caravan built, hut=25, hut=100
1800 1st Dye-Caravan to Madrid (demanded)=84
1650 Japanese: mysticism, Germans and Chinese: writing, Spanish exchange writing for wheel +50 tribute
1600 Marketplace, start WLTKD
1550 Japanese 50, Spanish 25, Chinese 150
1500 Library, 2nd Gems-caravan Madrid (demanded)=186 Japanese, German & Chinese: Wheel, Spanish don't want any
1450 Temple Masonry researchConstruction, Chinese: masonry + sharemaps!
1400 Japanese, Germans, Spanish: Masonry
1300 3rd Hides-caravan to Toledo (demanded)=92 End WLTD pop=7
1200 Japanese: Writing
1100 Construction researchEngineering, Pop=8 Germans, Spanish & Chinese: construction
1050 Chinese 25
950 Japanese: Construction, Spanish 25
900 Hides-caravan Toledo (demanded)=72 Hides-caravan Madrid (not demanded)=54
875 Aquaduct Engineering researchLiteracy, give Engineering to all 4
850 Germans destroyed by Spanish !!
800 Chinese 50
775 science: 7t - 11t ! (The Tom dM Effect)
750 Diplomat built to try bribing barb trireme for some off-shore hut and Mongol and Greek hunting.
725 sc: 11t - 8t ! (I guess 3rd Generation blue civ in existence)
650 Literacy researchRepublic, Japanese & Chinese: Literacy. Spanish exchange literacy for warriorcode
625 BarbLeader=150
600 Wine-caravan to Madrid (not demanded)=60
475 Republic revolution researchMaths Japanese: warriorcode + sharemaps! Chinese: republic + sharemaps! Spanish exchange republic for feudalism +25
425 Govt. Republic, start WLTCD, disband supported warrior, Chinese: Warriorcode, Japanese : Republic
400 Chinese: Feudalism
350 Pop=12, BarbLeader=150 (Horseman vetted!)
325 End WLTCD (1 step late!!)
300 Cloth-caravan to Madrid (not demanded)=110, Japanese: feudalism,
275 Mongols demand 250, refusal=war, my vet horseman destroys Tabriz (58,16) east of Kyoto
225 Mathematics researchPhilosophy, Give Mathematics to all 3 peaceful civs, Spansish: sharemaps
75 Spanish alliance, no gift
50 Greeks: construction (on demand) peace, wheel for alliance, no gift

AD 20 Spanish war with Mongols, Gold-caravan to Seville (demanded)=246, Greeks exchange Republic + Mathematics for Iron-working
40 Japanese exchange philosophy for seafaring, Greeks: seafaring,
60 Copernicus
80 Philosophy to Chinese, Japanese no alliance, sharemaps Spanish and Greeks. Greece is on Island continent! No sign of French as yet!
100 Greeks: feudalism
140 Medicine researchSanitation (gks war Spanish) Japanese :Medicine, Chinese: Astronomy
160 Shakespeare’s Theatre, sell Colosseum
180 sell Temple Japanese: Astronomy, Spanish: sharemaps, Greeks: Engineering, Chinese : Ironworking
200 Gold-caravan to Seville (demanded)=246, Chinese: Medicine, Greeks: Seafaring
220 Sanitation researchBanking Start WLTCD
240 Sewer System Japanese, Chinese, Greeks: Sanitation, Gift of Chivalry from Spanish,
260 pop=13 Spanish: sharemaps + gift 200
280 Chinese exchange Chivalry for BridgeBuilding
300 Greeks: Chivalry
340 Japanese exchange chivalry for Invention, Spanish: sharemaps shows hut at eastern tip of their domain!
360 Banking ResearchUniversity Spanish and Chinese: Banking, Greeks & Japanese: Bridgebuilding
380 Bank, Greeks & Chinese: invention
420 Max size 21 end WLTCD, hut=25 Spanish gift 75
460 University researchTheory-of-Gravity, Spanish exchange University for Navigation +gift 75 Greeks: Navigation, Chinese: Navigation and Invention but no alliance, Japanese: Navigation
480 built University Greeks: Banking + sharemaps
520 Theory of Gravity researchDemocracy Spanish Theory of Gravity gift 75
580 Democracy revolution researchEconomics Spanish: Democracy gift 150 Greeks: Pottery
600 Isaac Newton's College Japanese: Navigation, Greeks: Currency. Peace with Mongols
620 Govt. Democracy Mongols: Navigation + Invention Start WLTCD
Greeks: Astronomy Japanese: Banking, Spanish refuse knowledge!
640 Greek Elephant captures BarbLeader, so give Greek University for gift 100 (they must have been skint before!) Mongols: Chivalry
680 Mongols: Banking, Chinese & Japanese: University
720 Mongols: Writing, Greeks: Trade Pop=26 max for food End WLTPD Chinese exchange Economics for Gunpowder
760 Spanish 75, Greeks and Mongols: Chemistry
780 Stock Exchange Explosives researchMetallurgy, Japanese: Gunpowder + sharemaps!
800 Spanish and Greeks: sharemaps
820 Metallurgy researchPhysics build Engineer, War with Mongols
860 Physics researchConscription
880 Mongol Chariot kilt my Diplomat waiting forlornly for barbTrireme, Spanish ally declares war on Mongols, Spice-caravan to Salamanca (demanded)=216, Greeks & Chinese: physics
900 Conscription researchMagnetism Spanish: Metallurgy gift 150, Greeks gift 50
940 Japanese: Physics + sharemaps, Spanish sharemaps
960 Magnetism researchSteam-Engine Wine-caravan to Cordoba (demanded)=235 Greeks: sharemaps,
980 Greeks: Metallurgy, Spanish sharemaps Japanese: Steamengine
1000 Steam-Engine researchElectricity
1040 Electricity researchLeadership built Diplomat Spanish: Conscription,
1080 Leadership researchRefrigeration Greeks: Steamengine
1100Spanish gift 75, Greeks gift 100 Japanese: Metallurgy Chinese: Steamengine
1120 Regrigeration researchRailroad
1140 Spanish sharemaps Greek sharemaps
1160 Railroad researchTactics Mongols ask for peace, Spanish: Magnetism Greeks: Conscription
1180 Darwin's Voyage get Tactics Industrialization researchSteel Spanish, Japanese & Chinese: Railroad
1200 Greeks: Railroad
1220 Steel researchMachine-Tools, Spice-caravan built Japanese: Conscription Spanish: Industrialization, Greeks gift 100
1240 Spanish exchange Tactics for Atomic Theory +gift 150
1260 Machine Tools researchCorporation Greeks sharemap: diplo on (26,40) 9 turns to reach my horse
Japanese & Chinese: Industrialization, Spanish sharemaps
1280 Greeks: Industrialization, sharemaps +100, Japanese: tactics Spanish: Steel Chinese: Democracy
1300 Japanese: Magnetism Chinese: Conscription Greeks: Magnetism Spanish: Leadership
1320 Spanish: Explosives gift 200 Japanese: Steel
1340 Corporation researchElectronics Chinese: Economics Greeks: Tactics Japanese: Tactics
1360 Japanese: Chemistry Chinese: Magnetism Greeks: sharemaps
1380 Spice-caravan to Madrid (not demanded)=60 Japanese: Leadership, Chinese & Spanish: Electricity Greeks: Steel
1400 Spanish: Refrigeration Greek: sharemaps Chinese: Explosives Japanese: no maps
1420 Electronics researchRefining Japanese: Explosives, Chinese: Corporation Greeks: Leadership Spanish: Machine Tools
1440 Japanese: Machine Tools, Chinese: Electronics Greeks: 50
1460 Wine-caravan to Cordoba (demanded)=162 Spice-Caravan to Cordoba (not demanded)=65 Spanish and Greeks: sharemaps
1480 Wine-freight built, start WLTPD, Japanese: TheoryofGravity Chinese: Steel Greeks: Machine Tools Spanish: Electronics (on par now!)
1500 Refining researchCombustion Greeks and Spanish sharemaps,
1510 Bribe BarbFrigate Japanese: Atomic Theory Chinese & Greeks: Theory of Gravity
1520 Spanish: 100 Greek: sharemaps Japanese & Chinese: no maps
1530 end WLTPD
1540 Spanish exchange refining for polytheism sharemaps Greek sharemaps
1550 Factory Combustion researchMiniaturization Wine-freight to Cordoba (demanded)=240 Bribe Greek Engineer, Greeks: Atomic Theory no gift, Spanish: sharemaps
1560 Chinese & Japanese: Refining
1570 Power Plant Japanese: Electronics Chinese: Refrigeration Greeks: Refining Spanish: sharemaps
1580 Greeks: no gift Spanish: 200 Japanese: Economics Chinese: Polytheism
1590 Miniaturization researchAutomobile Greeks: Masonry! Chinese & Japanese: Miniaturization
1600 Chinese: Metallurgy Japanese: Democracy Greeks & Spanish: Miniaturization
1630 Automobile researchMass-Production Greeks: 50 Chinese & Japanese: no alliance Spanish sharemaps
1640 Superhighways hut=100
1660 Mass Production researchComputers Bribe BarbDragoons Bribe BarbFrigate Japanese, Chinese, Greeks & Spanish: Automobile Mongols: Railway and Physics
1670 French (at last on NW continent) demands 200g refusal=war! Greeks Chinese Spanish & Japanese: Combustion
1680 Spain exchange Mass Production for Amphibious Warfare Greeks, Japanese & Chinese: Mass Production
1690 Computers researchMobileWarfare
1700 Research Lab Wine-freight to Cordoba (demanded)=505
1710 Mobile Warfare researchRobotics
1720 Japanese & Greeks: Amphibious-Warfare Chinese & Spanish: Mobile Warfare
1730 Robotics researchNuclear-Fission
1740 Manufacturing Plant
1750 Nuclear Fission researchFlight
1754 Flight researchRadio Japanese & Greeks: Mobile Warfare Chinese: Computers Spanish: Nuclear Fission
1760 Radio researchAdvanced-Flight
1766 Advanced Flight researchNuclear Power Japanese Chinese & Greeks: Radio Greek + gift 75
1772 Nuclear Power researchRocketry Greeks 75 Spanish 200
1778 Rocketry researchSpaceFlight
1784 Space Flight researchPlastics
1786 Apollo Program
1788 Start building SS-parts
1790 Plastics researchCombined Arms
1796 Combined Arms researchLaser
1802 Laser researchSuperconductor
1808 Superconductor researchCommunism
1814 Communism researchFusion-Power
1820 Fusion Power researchEspionage
1828 War with Japanese
1836 Launch conventional 15-3-3-1-1-1 Spaceship
1837 Espionage researchGenetic-Engineering
1841 Hydro Plant sell Power Plant
1843 Mass Transit
1847 Peace with Japanese
1849 Sneak attack by Spanish fighter - War
1851 Arrival at AC – one way to escape Earthly war!
__________
Ancora Imparo
[This message has been edited by tonic (edited July 24, 2000).]