Most underrated Wonder: Marco Polo

[Makeo]

MPE is a very important wonder. I try and build it in every game i play. Especially in MP games. Its very important to know what your enemies are doing and me having MPE has allowed me to get other wonders such as J.S's and Michs's that i may not have otherwise got. Ie rush building them when i see my enemies about to discover the relevent techs.

[MasterBob]

Gread Library is always better than Marco Polo. The most underrated is oracle, really good in the early game if your a fast grower.

[Makeo]

I disagree. The library is a reactionary wonder. You have no control at all. Your tech progress is actually slowed by having this wonder. MPE allows you to trade for only the techs you need.
I also disagree in regard to the Oracle. Theology is discovered so quickly leaving the Oracle worthless virtually before being of any use.

[Scouse Gits]

The Oracle is just above the Tower, at the wrong end of the wonder list. Theology can fall out of a hut during the BC years.
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SG (2)

[geofelt]

I like them both. Your game is hampered if you have neither. A good reason for MP is to find civs from which to demand tribute. It will pay for itself many times over. It keeps me from asking if they have no gold, or are hostile.
If you get ahead in science, the AI will not trade with you, and the library helps.

[KhanMan]

I agree that MPE is underrated, mainly because I tend to use it to get everyone's maps in the mid-game.

GL is a wonder I tend to only get to prevent other civs from building it: if it's mp, I'd argue it's the best wonder for allied games, in sp I occasionally want to build up an ally (normally to get someone to harass an oversees enemy), and GL in enemy hands tends to be a pain.

However, I'm surprized to hear people touting the virutes of The Lighthouse:

1. It does NOT effect your vet/non-vet ship status (it merely increases non-trimere movement points).

2. It's been shown in past threads that it occasionally fails.

and, IMHO the biggest factor,
3. It expires with Magnetism.

Personally, if I'm going to plan major naval attacks, and try to control the seas, I at least want frigates and iron-clads. By that time, Lighthouse has expired, and so all it gives you is some faster trimeres and caravels-IMHO, next to worthless, compared to other ancient wonders.

I mean, would you rather have Lighthouse, Colossus, or Hanging Gardens? I seriously doubt most of you will pick Lighthouse.

-KhanMan

[KaiserIsak]

I just want to say that GL is the most over rated SP wonder of all.
I rarely earn a single tech from this wonder. I would rather build Leonardos, Michelangelos, Pyramids, Adam Smiths and sometimes King Richards.

[Adam Smith]

I dont know if MPE is the most underrated wonder, but it sure can be useful if you know how to use it, and there are a lot of things you can do with MPE that you cant do with GL. Some of these have already been mentioned, some have not, and a lot of them dont apply in multiplaying.
1. MPE is proactive, GL is reactive. With MPE you can trade for the techs you want, not just settle for the techs somebody else gives you.
2. MPE is quicker. You only need to have one civ with the tech you want, not two as with GL.
3. You can use MPE to select the specific techs you want to research, and can also help select what the AI researches. Cant do either of these with GL.
4. MPE lets you get maps, which means you can go trading or conquering that much quicker. Cant do either of these with GL either.
5. And did I mention tribute? Its always nice to have those extra $$$ flowing in, especially from those poor saps somewhere over the horizon who you havent even met yet.

[Scouse Gits]

Hey KM may I have the temerity to disagree - but the Lighthouse makes any new naval vessels have Veteran Status - or my copy of Civ has a bug - 'cos it works for me!

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Sten Sture]

SG - does that include Ironclads?? Oh well, who needs a giant fleet of vet ironclads early in the game anyway...

[Ming]

The light house is still under rated!
Vet trimeres early in the game give you total command of the sea. The ability to create vet ships that won't sink can be a significant advantage.

Now granted, unless I start on an island, I never go into a game thinking "OH BOY, I'm going for the lighthouse"... but, if I get screwed out of the other wonders, building an early strategy out of having the lighthouse isn't too tough. The trick is to REALLY use it if you have it!

[KhanMan]

I'll admit, I goofed on the vet thing.

Still, basing a strategy around a wonder that can go obsolete around 2500 BC? Yes, if you end up island-hopping, it'll help, and even aid your trading, but it expires with Magnetism, how deadly can that be?

-KhanMan

[Ming]

quote: Originally posted by KhanMan on 06-15-2000 06:55 AM Still, basing a strategy around a wonder that can go obsolete around 2500 BC? Yes, if you end up island-hopping, it'll help, and even aid your trading, but it expires with Magnetism, how deadly can that be?

I guess the group I play with is different than yours... I can't ever remember Magnetism be discovered in 2500 BC

Yes, it does expire... but so do other wonders. You get a window of opportunity to use it... and if you build it, you better have a plan. I'll build tons of vet ships and send them out to kill anything else on the sea. Nothing better than nailing other civs caravan carriers. They are also great for delivering diplo's to opponent cities. It is rare that a non vet ship will be able to sink you as you approach. You can steal a bunch of sciences that way, and get those embassies set up quickly...

Again, it isn't a high priority of mine, but when the situation dictates it, it can be very powerful when used right

[jpk]

Perhaps some of the differences of opinion are due to differences in the maps people use. Small worlds tend to have one continent. That makes it a lot easie to run into all the civilizations. Large multicontinent worlds can easily have 50 squares between civilizations. Recalling the wierd shape of continents, it can be very difficult to figure out an efficient route of that length.