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Does terrain affect attack strength?

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  • #16
    Here's what I don't get--why couldn't Microprose just make the game mesh with the manual?

    It's nice to know now about the lesser power of the pikeman. I don't know how many times I've expected a fortified pikeman in a forest or on a river defeat an elephant (should happen, at X2, even if the elephant is a vet.)

    Also, we had a big discussion long ago, and the consensus from guys who tested it out was that bonuses aren't cumulative.

    A rifleman, fortified on a river, and a vet., should be

    4 + 2 (fortified) +2 (River, forest, jungle, swamp) +2 (vet) =10.


    4*1.5*1.5*2=18. Think about it--in your experience, how would this hypothetical rifleman do against cavalry? In the first example, the rifleman has a slight edge against non-vet, slight disadvantage against non-vet. And that's what I see.

    In what theben says, the rifleman would almost never lose even against a vet, and would stay at least "yellow" against a non-vet. That's not what I see.


    • #17
      I thought the fortified bonus was only 25%, or +1 to a rifleman.
      "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
      "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
      "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.


      • #18
        Flav Dave,
        There's an error in your calculations. It should be 4 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 (not 2)= 13.5, not 18. That's a big difference. A vet attacking cavalry has a 12, which is close to the defender. So mostly it'll lose, but occasionally it'll win. Which fits in with my experience. Non-vet cavs almost always lose which also fits the formula.
        I'm consitently stupid- Japher
        I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned


        • #19
          whoops. I'm tempted to delete my post, destroy the evidence. I know what a vet does, don't know why I made this mistake. Got it right the first one.

          Still, I stand by my point, that in the old thread, the consensus was that the hypothetical rifleman would have defense of 10.

          I saw the other, bumped thread, which indicates the opposite. I'm not sold.


          • #20
            I think civ2 uses the same approach for all augmented calculations. shield production, trade, and also defensive strength. The confusion is that the vet status is intrinsic to the unit. A vet phalanx is 3, a vet rifleman is 6. You get this by multiplying by 1.5, or adding 50%--either works the same. After that, the bonuses for terrain, fortification, and walls are additive, based on the base value either vet or non-vet. I suspect that the AI may use the same calculation on attack, adding 200% when attacking from a mountain. I do hope someone can test this.


            • #21
              I did some experiments on defensive bonuses way back in the last millenium . I gave each unit 100 hps to reduce random number bias. Bottom line: defensive bonuses multiply together.

              Although the original post seems to have vanished, a summation can be found here:


              All my tests were done by varying the defender and his terrain. Attackers were always on grass so I don't have any data on whether attacking terrain makes any difference.