Governments: What do you think?

[Thall]

Fundamentalism is good, TOO good IMHO. The reduction of science by 50% is not a good enough disadvantage when you consider the phenomenal amount of money and happiness you can gain from it, not to mention military support.

[Thall]

Hey, that was my 31st post - I'm a Civer now.

Just had to say that.

[geofelt]

I stay in monarchy until I get SOL. I then alternate between fundamentalism and democracy. I use WLTP days to build up the cities, then go fundy and build infrastructure and accumulate gold. When I have built markets and aqueducts, I repeat the WLTP process. Later, I use fundy to build factories. At science 50%, taxes 50% science is ok. If I need to speed up research, I can go to democracy and churn out techs quickly. I find that under fundy, the AI slows down it's science also.

[MyOlde]

Why communism, for war or peace? Fundamentalism seems more powerful: no unhappiness, bundles of cash coming in as geofelt points out, and so on.

But what does communism do other than provide vet spies -- is that it?

[valmont]

Under communism there is no unhappiness, plus there is no science penalty as in fundamentalism.

I honestly don't see the appeal of fundamentalism. I spend most of the game in demo and I am never in want of gold. The few times I have tried fundy the gold I got was less than my tax revenue under demo.

[DaveV]

ST,

Nice writeup, as usual. I see Communism as the research government for ICS. Small cities (up to size 5) can easily be kept pacified by a couple troops, allowing you one support-free unit or settler in the field. The research rate is better than 3x the rate under fundy (80% vs an effective max of 25%). But once you have the advances you need (usualy Theology and Leadership for me), it makes sense to switch to Fundy.

One quibble - I recall the tithe income not being affected by markets/banks/exchanges.

[Sten Sture]

Holy cow Sieve - that post felt like giving up a five hole shot from the blue line!

I didn't know that coliseums increase your tithes by 3 and none of the happy improvements cost upkeep. D'oh.

Thanks!

[Steve Clark]

Don't think one can build an armed forces of 50+ spies, cruise missiles, alpines, fighters, marines, etc. under Democracy, if that is the goal. Fundamentalism allows up to 10 units to be away from home from each city. Communism is similar, a little less number of units per city but maintaining the science rate.

[Sieve Too]

Communism does not eliminate unhappiness. There is martial law and no "unit away" penalty under Com that is lacking from Rep and Dem. But Rep and Dem produce extra trade making luxuries worthwhile. Since luxuries aren't efficient under Com, you need those 3 units for martial law. Since Com only supports 3 units for free, any non-martial law units end up costing shields just as in Rep and Dem.

Fundy's gold advantage is most pronounced in the mid game. Assuming you built MC and JSB, each city produces at least 6 gold per turn, which is then augmented by Marketplaces and Banks. Older cities will also have a Temple, meaning 8 gold. Some cities may have a Colloseum, for 11 gold. This is before counting gold from trade, which is typically 50% under Fundy. Also, Temples, Cathredals and Colloseums no longer cost gold for upkeep. This make ICS a perfect strategy. More cities = more gold but no penalty. If you have 50 cities, you produce at least 300 gold before counting trade.

Fundy civs can also get away with all sorts of Diplo and Spy naughtiness that would cause a Democracry to collapse or hurt your reputation in Com. Fundy civs need spend little or no time fussing about newly conquered cities. No need to rush buy a Temple, Marketplace or Colloseum or leave a bunch of units behind to eliminate unhappiness. Just march on to the next city.

In the latter part of the game when all your cities are large and have lots of improvements, Dem is better though.

[finbar]

Angus - boyfriend in the Australian Navy? A travelling circus/wrestling troupe? Oxford educated?

So she can read, write and wrestle. Much much too overqualified for any Australian sailor.



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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[johnmcd]

I don't think she actually did the wrestling, she was the girl that wandered about holding up the round number card from what I understand. My Mum wasn't too pleased to hear about it.

[valmont]

D'oh! Sorry for the goof -- thanks, ST. Well, if you're a warmonger I can see now why Fundy might be the gov't of choice. I never play that way.

[n.c.]

If you do the following Democracy is unbeatable:

1) build JS Bach (in addition to whatever else you can). It kicks in AFTER the unit deprture unhappiness. Oc course, that is less important if you

2) build a support city or two. take an engineer and build a city that is only for supporting units. have the worker work a mine. better yet, have an engineer start a mine on the tile where you build the city, although some sonsider this a cheat. Rush-build a factory and with hoovers you'll easily be able to support 10 units. Of course, you may need a lot of units.

3) don't let your ground units make contact with the other side's ground units. if this never happens they won't ask for peace.

4) make every city a trade city. have at least two trade routes/city. that way you'll make loads of cash and science.

5) stay relatively peaceful mid-game. make sure your units are vets and the highest tech available, and don't have too many of them. (the israeli approach)

Anyway, that's what I do. of course it only works for Alpha Centari.

[finbar]

Okay, so she can only read and write. Still overqualified for an Oz sailor. Amd most Oz men, come to think of it.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Scouse Gits]

I don’t think that all our correspondents have quite grasped the importance of the WLT Cardinal Day to a Fundamentalist government. I ran the following test on my current game (nothing special just playing for fun with no particular aim other than winning!) – deity, small world, standard rules, 7 civs, raging hordes – Tax rate: tax=0, science=50%, luxuries=50% 29 out of 31 cities celebrating (1 too small) gold 530, science advance in 5 turns – now change the tax rate to tax=50%, science=50% no celebrations – indeed your income is increased to a magnificent 990 gold, but science plummets to 7 turns per advance. I know which I prefer!
A propos nothing much, there was a thread recently (that I can’t find) about a 12 Wonder city – and all you MP guys said “target!” well my capital (Liverpool of course) currently has 19 Wonders and is building CfC – the Zulus foolishly beat me to the Pyramids thus hastening their demise!


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor