Must-get wonders

[East Street Trader]

Smash

How do GL and Marco Polo's work together? I've seen mention of them in combination before and wondered what the complimentary aspect is.

[Sieve Too]

Another reason why I rank Hanging Gardens #1: For quite a long time Hanging Gardens not only keeps your cities from revolting, it also acts as the Colossus in the city in which it is built. Most likely you will be in Monarchy when it is built. HG grants WLTKD immediately after being built. Your city will generate trade as a Republic: one extra arrow for each square already generating one - Same effect as the Colossus!

If you find yourself forced to choose between the two, pick HG since it does double duty. Not bad for 200 shields.

EST: GL and MPE work together to help direct your science. With MPE you'll know that one civ already has, say, chivalry and you can also see that a second civ is researching it. So when it comes time to pick a tech to research, you know you don't have to pick chivalry since GL will shortly be giving it to you.

Another advantage comes when you are forced to research a "crummy tech", i.e. the list to choose from doesn't contain anything you really want. Since you have MPE, you should select to research a crummy tech that an AI civ already has. Since GL tends to load you down with other crummy techs, you can open a dialoge with the AI civ that has the rotten tech you are researching. Trade one of your GL-given crummy techs for the AI's crummy tech that you are stuck researching. At the end of your turn, you'll get a new list to research and hopefully something better will come up.

In a similar vein, with all the techs you get from GL, you can bog down the research of all AI civs by gifting them techs that stink, or that they won't use. Go ahead and give the Mongols techs like Trade, Construction, Theory of Gravity or University. They'll never make any use of them and it'll slow them down on their path to Feudalism and Sun Tzu.

[DaveV]

To amplify on Sieve Too's comments, you can actually use MPE to direct the AIs' research. If an AI is researching a tech you already have, then gift it to them (even in MGE, an AI will usually accept a tech gift). Keep this up until the AI is researching something you don't have. Then you can wait until that AI trades the tech to another AI (or another AI discovers it independently), and the GL will give it to you. This turns the AI research cheating into an advantage for you. You can turn off science and let the AIs do the heavy lifting while you build up your civ.

[niteowl]

Here are my pics and why...

#1 Top dog = Leo's workshop --- I usually make a beeline for Invention so I can get automatic upgrades (especially from settler to engineer)

#2 King Richard's --- if I get Engineering early enough I have time to build this in one of my less productive cities thus significantly enhancing its production

#3 Adam Smith's --- it takes care of a ton of maintenance costs for me.

#4 Lighthouse --- of all the "early" wonders, this is only one of two that I focus on...the other one is...

#4 Pyramids --- equally as important to me as Lighthouse. I build this so I don't have to worry about granaries.

#5 Magellan's --- usually I only build this if I am facing a naval strategy (i.e. my starting point was on a small island with lots of small islands surrounding it)

#6 Great Library --- this one is pretty handy, but I usually go hut tipping so I tend to get a jump on technology anyway.

#7 Great Wall --- it's okay, but with my hut tipping, I usually come across Metalurgy at some point and it becomes obsolete.

#8 Apollo Program --- a must have if I am planning to reach AC first. If I am playing *bloodlust* I won't waste the time or energy on it because I can't use it.

#9 All others --- if I can manage to build a few more I will, but the rest are simply extraneous for me.

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"My dear girl don't flatter yourself.
What I did this evening was for king and
country. You don't think it gave me any
pleasure do you?

--- James Bond

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

OK, first of all I don't wait for Monarchy, or a set number of cities, before I start building Wonders. When I play, I usually try to get a lot of cities down in a short time, not worrying about most improvements until republic, when you really need the happiness improvements and the science/money improvements start to really be worthwhile (This is on King level, usually). However, I always try to start a Wonder or two early. How early depends on whether I have enough cities to keep the flow of settlers coming, or if I have a good Wonder site (lots of shields, or trade specials/rivers for the Colossus).

I just find that the AI is slow in starting wonders and it never hurts to get a head start.... anyway, my favorites would be, in build order:

1) Colossus. I'm a convert to the SSC concept since I found Apolyton.

2) Hanging Gardens. Cheaper than Oracle and you don't need temples for it to work.

3) Michelangelos Chapel... for all the usual reasons

4) Isaac Newton/Copernicus. Preferably both, in the Colossus city... which means building a lot of caravans to speed up construction.

For me, those are the must-haves. I obviously want more, but most of the others are trade-offs. For instance, Pyramids are nice, but you can effect fast growth with WLTXD. Women's Suffrage is good, but if you miss it, Cure for Cancer is an alternative.... or Bach if you get the chance.

The ones I have given up on building (in SP) are Manhattan Project, Eiffel Tower, Great Library and Marco Polo. Just don't seem to get much value out of them, but I'm sure if I played differently there might be some use to the latter 2.

I always try to have at least one city building a wonder, even a less desired one, until they're all gone... just in case I discover something new that lets me build one I DO want.

STYOM

[Basileus of the Romans]

I just get all of them. If a rival builds one, then I send my forces out to "borrow" the wonder for extended period of time

I tend to find that Great Wall, Leonardo's Workshop, Sun Tzu's War Academy, U.N, Hoover Dam, and Apollo Program tend to work the best for world conquest.


[This message has been edited by Basileus of the Romans (edited January 17, 2001).]

[Bereta_Eder]

quote: Originally posted by Sieve Too on 01-16-2001 10:01 AM HG grants WLTKD immediately after being built. Your city will generate trade as a Republic: one extra arrow for each square already generating one - Same effect as the Colossus!

Nice
For some strange reason I NEVER read (or more precisely paid attention to) the description in the civilopedia (stupid - stupid). Needless to say that they and War Academy are the only wonders I have never built.

Still the beneficts of trade would evaporate sooner when the citizens stop rocking?

[Scouse Gits]

Hi Basileus! You say Apollo helps with world conquest ... is that because you can see the whole map ... or have I missed something?
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SG(2)

[Sieve Too]

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 on 01-17-2001 06:26 PM Still the beneficts of trade would evaporate sooner when the citizens stop rocking?

Yes, HG goes obsolete sooner than Colossus and even before that, you'll need an Elvis once the city reaches size 7. It's still worth it though IMHO. One of the nice things about HG is that you get the best combination of gov & trade in the early to mid game: Monarchy for unit support, martial law, Settlers-still-on-a-diet, and the flexibility to carry on a war. Almost Fundy level freedom for expansion. Republic level trade in your HG city (which should be your Super Science City).

If you are a fan of early Republic, HG is clearly the best early wonder since it makes WLTCD that much easier.

Of course, if you can manage to build both HG and Colossus in the same city, you have an excellent start on the SSC and you don't even need to switch to Republic.

[Basileus of the Romans]

Scouse-

Yes, Apollo is good for Conquest (IMHO) because you get to see the entire world. What could be more valuble than the ability to see where your enemy is?

[Basileus of the Romans]

Oh, has anyone mentioned Manhattan Project yet? It is fun to have the power of God at your disposal >D

[Everyman]

Top Five Deity Level Wonders

(1) Hanging Gardens. I'll buy this as soon as I'm within striking distance. Allows you to turn entertainers in size 2 cities into productive citizens.

(2) Michaelangelo's Chapel. Takes care of your happiness problems for a few sizes.

(3) Leonardo's Workshop. Loss of veteran status especially hurts when going from ironclads to destroyers but the wonder is worth is for the settler to engineer conversion alone. Also very useful for turning inferior defending units in a bribed enemy city into competitive units.

(4) Statue of Liberty. Allows me to turn Communist early in the game and get rid of corruption, dramatically increasing trade arrows and beakers. Particularly helpful because by the time I get this wonder, my empire is widespread and corruption is rampant in fringe cities.

(5) Adam Smith. Dramatically increases cashflow, allowing me to bribe cities during the middle game.

[Bereta_Eder]

quote: Originally posted by Basileus of the Romans on 01-18-2001 02:19 PM Oh, has anyone mentioned Manhattan Project yet? It is fun to have the power of God at your disposal >D

Polytheism

[Scouse Gits]

Basileus - yes to fight your opposition you must know the geography! However, Marco Polo is available in the BC years. Build it! Be kind to the AI and give them a few techs for their maps - don't wait for Apollo!
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SG(2)

[Smokey tha nuke man]

quote: Originally posted by Basileus of the Romans on 01-18-2001 02:19 PM Oh, has anyone mentioned Manhattan Project yet? It is fun to have the power of God at your disposal >D

yo, duder, ya get nukes regardless of who builds the project. if i can, i build it first, but it is never high on my priority list (which i already posted).