Garrisons/Armored Probe Teams

[NorthSwordsman]

A friend and I have been discussing recently about Garrison troops and armored probe teams. What is the optimal mixture for them? I normally use 1 Garrison and 1 Probe team.

Normally, I use Trance Scouts 1/1t/1 with an armored probe (probe/2t/1) (and upgrading the armor as needed, such as base location (border), war status, etc.) and when trouble occurs at that base, upgrade the armor on the scout unit.

When I get neural grafting, I use 1/1tp/1 (trance cops) and probe/2t-ecm/1 (Trance ECM Probe with whatever armor is needed). Is there a better way to do this?

NS

[MariOne]

UNFORTUNATELY for you, a probe team wil remain basically a non-combat unit.
Yes, when you armor it, it will no more suffer the -50% non-combat penalty, but ONLY when defending against a *conventional* attack.
Under every other aspect, they'll still behave as non-combats.

This entails:
- WHEN STACKED with convetional units, the game will NEVER pick them as defenders. This is also true INSIDE bases
- you CANNOT tho designate them as defenders with the CtrlD command!
- when the last conventional defender in the stack dies, all non-combats (INCLUDING armored ones) will *die* along with him

and other features less related to the topic here:
- they will not able to conquer a base invading it
- they will not work as police
- they will not be able to move on the same turn they make a drop, after the landing, regardless of their movement points

To get back to your example:
You have a 1-1t-1 and a P-2t-1 stacked in a base (on the field it would be just the same).
You get attacked: what happens?
1. the game will defend with the scout patrol (armor 1)
2. there's nothing you can do to make the armored probe defend instead of the scout patrol
3. when the scout patrol dies, your probe (regardless its armor) will also die, leaving the base empty anyway.

Thus, against conventional attacks, the presence of an armored probe stacked with a garrison is totally irrelevant and uneffective.
If instead the armored probe is ALONE in the base, the game will make it defend the base, and will indeed use the armor you added to it. You will have tho no police in that base.
This makes them rather useful for Morgans running FM (no police anyway), as being probes they don't pay any support

[NorthSwordsman]

Then, forget armoring them and just go with two garrison units, upgrading them as needed? Would an optimal mix be two 1-1t-1/1-1p-1/1-1tp-1 and just a regular probe to defend against probe actions (in a normal non-threatened base, such as an interior base). I realize that you would need more units on a frontier base than interior.

quote: Originally posted by MariOne on 02-24-2001 07:24 PM UNFORTUNATELY for you, a probe team wil remain basically a non-combat unit. Yes, when you armor it, it will no more suffer the -50% non-combat penalty, but ONLY when defending against a *conventional* attack. Under every other aspect, they'll still behave as non-combats. This entails: - WHEN STACKED with convetional units, the game will NEVER pick them as defenders. This is also true INSIDE bases - you CANNOT tho designate them as defenders with the CtrlD command! - when the last conventional defender in the stack dies, all non-combats (INCLUDING armored ones) will *die* along with him and other features less related to the topic here: - they will not able to conquer a base invading it - they will not work as police - they will not be able to move on the same turn they make a drop, after the landing, regardless of their movement points To get back to your example: You have a 1-1t-1 and a P-2t-1 stacked in a base (on the field it would be just the same). You get attacked: what happens? 1. the game will defend with the scout patrol (armor 1) 2. there's nothing you can do to make the armored probe defend instead of the scout patrol 3. when the scout patrol dies, your probe (regardless its armor) will also die, leaving the base empty anyway. Thus, against conventional attacks, the presence of an armored probe stacked with a garrison is totally irrelevant and uneffective. If instead the armored probe is ALONE in the base, the game will make it defend the base, and will indeed use the armor you added to it. You will have tho no police in that base. This makes them rather useful for Morgans running FM (no police anyway), as being probes they don't pay any support

[LoD]

NS: Instead of quantity, you should go for quality. Scout Patrols will submit easily to anything stronger than Lasers. A 1-MAX-1 (ECM,Trance) + 1 PT is IMHO the optimum for interior bases in times of absolute peace. For frontier bases, throwing one PT and one 1--1 (AAA, ECM) into the mix would be wise (those hints apply mostly to MP, but also partially to higher-difficulty SP).
Also, remember that, when war is imminent in the post D:AP age, there is no such thing as a Frontier base.
And one more thing: A good commander wants luck, but never relies on it.

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LoD - Owner/Webmaster of

THE CHIRONIAN GUILD SMAC Site

[NorthSwordsman]

Thanks, LoD! I appreicate the advice.

quote: Originally posted by LoD on 02-25-2001 06:05 AM NS: Instead of quantity, you should go for quality. Scout Patrols will submit easily to anything stronger than Lasers. A 1-MAX-1 (ECM,Trance) + 1 PT is IMHO the optimum for interior bases in times of absolute peace. For frontier bases, throwing one PT and one 1--1 (AAA, ECM) into the mix would be wise (those hints apply mostly to MP, but also partially to higher-difficulty SP). Also, remember that, when war is imminent in the post D:AP age, there is no such thing as a Frontier base. And one more thing: A good commander wants luck, but never relies on it.

[Sikander]

Well at the risk of repeating myself, there are quite a few advantages to Armored Probe Teams. They are available early, the are cheap, they are clean, and they don't cause anyone to become unhappy due to your police rating. Use them to garrison your border area, they exert a ZOC and may well fight better than your conventional infantry forces in the early game due to there potentially higher morale. Another place to use them is in your bases, where they can serve one of two functions.

1) They can protect your base against enemy probes.
2) They can sortie out to keep an approaching enemy force at bay.

Personally I use them to cover my coastal squares as well so that enemy invasion forces or probes must use marines to get a toehold. Normally the AI doesn't get it together to do that until the late mid game or so. All in all I think they are a useful tool, especially for a builder and / or a player who needs to run FM while there are some bad guys about.