Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

They had 8 cities but they voluntarily gave 5 away, so I don't know why we would be shaming anyone. In fact, Russia is the only civ to actually give back cities to Azteca. Just an FYI

[India (DoE)]

3 cities? if that is not way past any measure of "measured war" I don't know what is. shame on you Russia.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Azteca has 3 cities. Russia gave back some cities.

[England (DoE)]

Mali has stuck with us a while and gobbling up half of their neighbor would be a nice reward for them. Israel has had many setbacks, they could use the help too. This seems like a great system. I'd rather have Mali & Israel get 5 cities each than, 10 players each get 1 city.

Aztec is already gobbled up. They only have one city left anyhow. Nothing really needs to be done, just finish them off.

[Arabia2 (doe)]

I think for an other game we should come up with a mechanism to eliminate those civs which don't contribute anything to the game (abandoned, falled behind too much whatever) it's hard to make rules in an ongoing game though and make it fair.
Subbing for them by other player is also not really a good option.. the world is divided, hard to find neutral player.. And for example I can't accept that "x" player is an ally of "y" so he subs for them for one hundred or more turns so they are now considered to be in permanent alliance.
So what if, just this one time we decide to eliminate all those civs which are no longer wanted, we would divide their land between the current players using score rank to determine who gets what. The method I have in mind:
The lowest ranked ask for a city then the second lowest and so on. then when every one got one an other turn begins..
The benefit of this system:
-everyone gets something
-lower ranked civs get the best pick and probably get more cities
-it still helps lower ranked civs more, but would not completely change the balance of power
If one wouldn't want to take any more cities he could pass or offer that to someone else. I know it's not very nice, but I don't see anynicer option unless a few new players happen to wander here and would sub for us.. I think we all agree that we don't want to wait too long for miracles

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

This is what we know:
1. China must have a player (not a Temp sub)
2. Azteca is in bad shape but still needs a player because they are at war
3. Zulu needs a player
4. Mongolia does not need a sub, they already have a player
5. Mongol player reliably plays his turns
6. Azteca player is a fine player who greatly contributes to the stories

Why not send an in-game message with the login info for Zulu and Azteca to Mongol player (who we know will at least play their turns) and let the Aztec player take over China? That way the lower ranked civs all get played at least, meanwhile China has the active, posting player they deserve.

This solution allows the game to continue immediately, without getting any new subs, and we even get a potential power shift in the process, as the new China player will undoubtedly take a different route with respect to the war with India, global alliances, etc.

[England (DoE)]

Zulu is already gone for like 100 turns. It's been subbed all the time by the Ottomans.
I dislike IA'ing civs b/c it destoryed the balance of power.
I also dislike the idea to hand a civ over to it's neighbors for the same reasons.

Someone should perm-sub it till the end of the game who's not involved in local politics.

Oh wow, I had no idea about Zulu-Ottomans. Shows how out of it I've been.

I definitely think Mali & Israel should gobble them up then. If we haven't been able to find a perm sub for them in 100 turns, we aren't going to now. It is so much more out in the open and fairer to have them just be eliminated instead of someone in the game managing them.

[Robert]

Zulu is already gone for like 100 turns. It's been subbed all the time by the Ottomans.
I dislike IA'ing civs b/c it destoryed the balance of power.
I also dislike the idea to hand a civ over to it's neighbors for the same reasons.

Someone should perm-sub it till the end of the game who's not involved in local politics.

[Russia (DoE)]

I am quite sure Mongolia is around - he is decent player and would not leave just like that. I meet him sometimes in-game and we exchange few words.

[England (DoE)]

I like the idea of downsizing. I like also the idea of letting Zulu go AI and giving everyone a shot at them, with Europe waiting 15 turns. Could be a nice "scramble for Africa" situation.

But are we sure Zulu and Mongolia are really gone though? They've been dutifully playing their turns for months now. Checking PlayYourTurn it looks like both played their turn recently. They don't speak up in the forum much, we all knew that, but they do play their turns. So why kick them out?

I say we give China to the Aztecs, let the Aztecs get gobbled up (they mostly are at the moment anyhow) and then just continue on. Mongolia & Zulu will probably come back to playing their turns eventually. If they don't within the next week or so, then we can discuss what to do then.

[Native America (DoE)]

And for RL to be less chaotic.

Where's the fun in that??

[Native America (DoE)]

Ok, let's face it.

1) We lack players for China, Zulu and Mongolia (notice that in Inca's list in Post #2699, Mongolia isn't even listed at all).

2) We have no apparent subs for any of the three locations. The only possible subs stuck a nose in and didn't get a quick enough response to stick around.

3) We need to move the game forward, or everyone will want to quit and do something else.

4) We have no reason to believe that any other permasubs are likely to be forthcoming.

I think this means we face what all large long-term multi-player games face at some point: downsizing. Used to happen to us a lot on long Europa Universalis campaigns.

Of the three civilizations missing players, clearly the civ that MUST be replaced is China in some fashion. The tension between China and India needs to be played out. India deserves a chance to move the storyline forward in that theater.

However, if China is re-tenanted, something has to be done with Mongolia other than simply letting it become AI, since that would hardly be fair to all China's enemies, since China could theoretically scoop up the pieces (assuming the already outsized Russians didn't beat them to it). So a solution has to be found that doesn't just end up making China = China + Mongolia.

My suggestion, admittedly a bit unorthodox (and based upon a very poor understanding of the geography of the nations in that area), would be to have someone take up China (which admittedly just lost 3 or 4 cities), and hand Mongolia over to the control of the India player in return for a cease-fire between India and China, and have the parties work-up a story line accordingly. It seems to me likely that such a situation would allow the India player some chance of becoming relevant in the game without just taking out his/her frustration on China, and would likely spark some fairly intense negotiations among all parties in the area over the fate of the Mongolian state's cities.

As for Zulu, I see no reason not to let it devolve to Mali control, possibly with some concurrence reached with Egypt over compensation; alternatively just AI it and declare the cities off limits to the European powers for, say, 15 turns.

I agree that, of the players towards the bottom of the table, the Aztec player has demonstrated the best likelihood of taking over China and doing something famous with it in the storyline. I think the Aztec contribution to the North American storyline has been awesome, and clearly that player should be offered a chance to [s]screw it up for China[/s] re-create Chinese glory. Under those circumstances, the Aztec empire could be made AI, and it would be up to the various parties to carve it up as they saw fit. This, too, could be handled in the story line. I can already see the Viking player having to deal with the sudden difficulty that the city they "leased" suddenly had no actual lessor.

Anyway, whatever we do, let's do it in the next 24 hours so we can move at least ONCE this weekend!!!!

[England (DoE)]

Somebody write a good story for everyone to read. No alternate dimension stuff about time not moving forward

I'm still waiting on some pics from Russia to finish my Great War maps.

And any saves people have.

And for RL to be less chaotic.

[England (DoE)]

Now that IS an interesting idea

It certainly would create a possible shift in the power balance, which is always exciting.

I would go further and suggest we give the Aztec player complete control of China (posting rights and all), but the give the Mongolia player subbing responsibility for Azteca and Zulu. Azteca player would give up Azteca permanently and BECOME China.

That way, 3 of the lower ranked civs would have one player controlling them, and it would be less of an issue whether they missed a turn here or there, and less of an issue whether they posted. Meanwhile a brilliant story teller like the current Azteca Player gets new life breathed into him

I'd be ok with that. Lets do it.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Somebody write a good story for everyone to read. No alternate dimension stuff about time not moving forward