Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[Inca (DoE)]

Who moves first, me or India? I forget.

Ah yes, I am second.

[Russia (DoE)]

Ah! Moving at last!

It is just strange that Zulu attracted a replacement, while China did not

[Robert]

I'm launching the game now.
China will be AI, the Zulu will be handed over to the sub from one of the Americas who has volunteered.

Ottomans: please send the password to me, I'll then distribute it to the new sub.
In the meanwhile you may want to continue to sub for the Zulu?

[Russia (DoE)]

Yes, let's start it already, it will be interesting to see India fighting

against a merciless ai . I think the ai behavior will be actually a proper role playing for this situation,

why would they want to talk anyway with a nation who just murdered millions of their citizens. And still,

because it's an ai India may have a slim chance for survival

Absolutely! Was thinking exactly the

same.

Also, I always thought the AIs are only sitting ducks in a game with humans, but in one pitboss it turned

that the AIs block was quite serious power to be considered. One strong AI armed with the latest fashion,

with few vassals to add to this was really scary. Bad for our alliance the AIs supported the other alliance



Let the host say and we hopefully move forward.

[Arabia2 (doe)]

Yes, let's start it already, it will be interesting to see India fighting against a merciless ai . I think the ai behavior will be actually a proper role playing for this situation, why would they want to talk anyway with a nation who just murdered millions of their citizens. And still, because it's an ai India may have a slim chance for survival

[Inca (DoE)]

Concur. Restart it then. India better make an amazing story post about how they turned all the Chinese into mindless automatons somehow with some new superweapon... The plague, it returns...

[Japan (DoE)]

Fair enough Arabia, I agree with what you say. My point of course is that its ludicrous to build infrastucture, wonders, and race ahead in tech in favor of building a strong military, and then whine that you shouldnt be considered "high-ranked" because you dont have a strong military.

Anyway it seems like we should just kick Zulu to AI (China is already AI) and continue. Mongols or whoever can take over for them later if they wish.

I agree. Lets just put them on AI and continue the game. All this waiting is getting up nowhere.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Fair enough Arabia, I agree with what you say. My point of course is that its ludicrous to build infrastucture, wonders, and race ahead in tech in favor of building a strong military, and then whine that you shouldnt be considered "high-ranked" because you dont have a strong military.

Anyway it seems like we should just kick Zulu to AI (China is already AI) and continue. Mongols or whoever can take over for them later if they wish.

[Arabia2 (doe)]

Just to clarify: my point was not about strong and weak military vs ranking, but different approaches to have somewhat up to date military.
A top civ will research the new technologies and build top troops, but lets see a medium power, he could take two paths:
The classic path is that it continues researching and meanwhile building the best troops available to him.
THe alternative path is that it stops researching, still building troops and uses the money it saves from not researching to upgrade its troops by the help of an ally.
We can say for sure: the one following the first path will be higher ranked but will always be less powerful than the second (and their spending both in production and commerce is the same)
That's why I said that rank is not a perfect indicator, and yes I know Arabia too have upgraded troops, that's why I used "my" and "me" in the first sentence of my previous post
It could be a long debate how good is the "second path" for the game, I think it's still better to allow it than to do not.

[Russia (DoE)]

If the Mongol wants China, I am OK he to have it.

Otherwise I think turning those two in to AIs is the most easiest way the game to move on.

[England (DoE)]

Guys, cut it out. Quit fighting.

Sad to see about Aztecs/China. Who else can take them on? Japan? Mongolia? Letting them go AI does not sound like a good idea at all.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

I'm sick and tired of the Ottoman whinging about their lack of power, or rank, or whatever.

Yea well I'm sick and tired of players like Natives who foolishly neglect their military and then point to their lack of military as a reason to deflect attention from their high scores..."Oh we are so poor and weak... pay no attention to the fact that we are ranked 5 out of 18 Nations"... yeah right

Oh and since we are talking about what we are sick and tired of... I'm sick and tired of the Natives player constantly threatening to quit if he doesn't get his way. Just QUIT already, if my posts annoy you so much, because I can promise you, I LOVE arguing about civ, and the fact that it annoys you is just gonna make me argue longer and louder. If you dont like it, stop reading

As for the game, Aztecs say they will not take China, and will fight to the end. Manly words Aztec player So let's put China and Zulu to AI and get the show back on the road.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

I'll play on as Aztecs (but I guess that won't be long).
Will not take over China: I did my part of subbing hard situations.

I'm sick and tired of the Ottoman whinging about their lack of power, or rank, or whatever. The Ottoman Empire could wipe me out inside of 10 turns if they tried, despite the fact I am higher-ranked. The Ottoman player's constant attempts to manipulate what we decide to do in order to protect his precious situation are fast turning me off to continuation of the game. Just let's all shut the heck up about what each of us as a nation wants and simply pick an expedient solution and do it. NOW.

Hear, hear.

[Native America (DoE)]

I'm sick and tired of the Ottoman whinging about their lack of power, or rank, or whatever. The Ottoman Empire could wipe me out inside of 10 turns if they tried, despite the fact I am higher-ranked. The Ottoman player's constant attempts to manipulate what we decide to do in order to protect his precious situation are fast turning me off to continuation of the game. Just let's all shut the heck up about what each of us as a nation wants and simply pick an expedient solution and do it. NOW.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Score does not include one very important element: strong allies who upgrade my obsolete soldiers for me. that was my point. I know you are paying for this upgrade by neglecting your research ... just my opinion about that rank is far from being the perfect indicator.

When you say "rank is not a perfect indicator"... A perfect indicator of what? I agree that simply looking at score does not tell the whole story about how much military a civ has, but that is my point. Score is a perfect indicator of how much military a civ SHOULD have.

If your military strength does not match your score strength, then that is your own fault, and it is a red flag to other countries that maybe you dont deserve to be ranked as highly as you are, because your military does not match your score. Then civs who have not been neglecting military can come in and use their military to increase their score, at the expense of yours, until an equilibrium is reached between your rank and you military strength. That is EXACTLY what happened to England in the first Great War. They were top ranked, with lots of cities, but they had no military. So then they got attacked until their military matched their score.

As for your point about getting upgrades from allies... you correctly point out that upgrades are paid for at the expense of tech so that is reflected in score. My score is low now, because I pay for military instead of tech. But then I have the option of using the Military to increase my score. Military is just like every other component of the game. It is a tool to enhance your score. It is just that with military spending, the score increase is indirect, because you have to decide whether to use it, while the score increase from tech, growth etc, is automatic.

And BTW when you sneer about Turkey having "strong allies who upgrade my soldiers for me", you should know that MOST of your Army AND Navy is stuff that was given to Arabia or upgraded by "strong Allies" (like Turkey for example), just before you took over the civ. Maybe you didn't realize that.