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Apolytonia Defense Review (580 AD - Vol. I)

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  • Apolytonia Defense Review (580 AD - Vol. I)

    Welcome to the first installment of the APD. This hopefully will become a valuable set of statistics not only on our military, but on other national militaries as well.

    These statisitcs were created using the Mil-Calc (see link at bottom), to estimate the relative strengths of our neighbors. Without going into too much detail, using information accessible from Demographics, Military Advisor and the Main Map a set of formulas were devised to gauge a Civ's relative military strength. Obviously, once calculated, they were compared to make this assesment.

    Apolyton Military - 580 AB



    This is the current state of our military, with almost all of our strength lying in our Land Forces. While Sea Forces might be desired, when we look at a comparison toward our rivials:

    Abananaba Military Comparisons - 580 AB



    We see we have almost double the cities and population. The continuation of land supremacy at the expense of the sea might be wise to create a cohesivenss in our vast empire. When comparing the Military Index of all Abananaba militaries:

    Abananaba Military Index - 580 AB



    We see we are the third largest miliatary in the world, with Greek and Aztec militaries slightly larger. What is disturbing is if these nations came together and declared war on Apolytonia, they would initially surmise 31% of the world's military strength, an almost 2:1 ratio.

    Abananaba Military Industrial Comparisons - 580 AB



    Once the build-up of current forces is spent, both Greek and Aztec industrial complexes could out produce us 2:1 and together, 4:1! We would be facing a serve crisis on our hands. But could the Greeks or Aztecs support such a build-up without hurting their economic infrastructure?

    Abananaba Military Economic Comparisons - 580 AB



    Maybe, considering the vast amout of our income is derived from trading resources. What is positive, is that an increase in up-keep by both Greek and Aztec forces would limit their warfighting capability and might stave off their initial combat and industrial production advantages.

    At this time, it is our unique trading postion that is keeping our rivals at bay. Without our monoply on a variety of Luxury Goods, they might reconsider. It is not just an increase in military expenditures that is needed, but the ability to produce those units if a conflict did occur and should be our focus in the upcoming turns.

  • #2
    Wow. Impresive! And informative.
    "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."
    --P.J. O'Rourke

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    • #3
      Great job, Mr. orange.
      RIAA sucks
      The Optimistas
      I'm a political cartoonist

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      • #4
        Orange - love the charts, graphs, you have given the citizens a very comprehensive view of our military and it's capabilities compared to the other civs, a very informative source! Are you going to regularly update this?
        Former Supreme Military Commander of the Democratic Apolyton States, Term 8
        Former Chairman of Apolyton Labor Party

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        • #5
          Thanks all for the positive response! I'd hope to update it every final turn chat save, pending RL. See how I put this together by getting your own MilCalc at my site: http://www.luckyorange.com

          Each MilCalc can figure out you or a rival Civ's pre/post Espionage military strength in any Civ game! I even put one together for casualties. Fight any hypothectical battle!

          Ah... The wonders of Excel!

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          • #6
            Informative, but can you skinny up the charts a little?
            If you're interested in participating in the first Civ 5 Community Game then please visit: http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/forum.php

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            • #7
              Excellent!!
              I am SO impressed with you Mr. Orange.

              Btw, I recommend that you make progress graphs based on previous data so that we can identify and hopefully anticipate trends.
              "Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
              And the truth isn't what you want to see,
              Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
              - Phantom of the Opera

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              • #8
                This will be quick. I have a dinner to go to.

                GK --

                Maybe. Depending on how cooperative Excel is.

                Shiber --

                Sure will. Starting with 640 AD. The first ADR worked out the last kinks between turn-chat/thread.

                I'll get 640 AD ASAP, probably tomorrow. Thanks for the great comments.

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                • #9
                  The work on the charts and graphs is nice, especially aesthetically!

                  But I have to say that it is impossible for you to have these figures. Especially without an Intelligence agency, you cannot possibly obtain these figures. If you did some sort of hack into the data to get it, that's against the rules of the democracy games. You couldn't know how many units all the other civs have unless you spied on each city, which wasn't authorized by the government. Same with the upkeep. And as for some of the demographics, I don't see how it's possible to know the MFG capacity and GNP of the other civs.

                  I'm only saying this because I think it's very very important to only supply data that is actually attainable within the rules of the game. Otherwise it's just like playing ahead and acting upon the information; it's cheating.
                  Minister of the Economy: Term IV, V
                  Ministre d'Économie: Session IV, V
                  Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people following me!
                  Même si je suis paranoïde, ça n'exige pas qu'il n'y a pas de gens qui me suivent!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Reddawg
                    The work on the charts and graphs is nice, especially aesthetically!

                    But I have to say that it is impossible for you to have these figures. Especially without an Intelligence agency, you cannot possibly obtain these figures. If you did some sort of hack into the data to get it, that's against the rules of the democracy games. You couldn't know how many units all the other civs have unless you spied on each city, which wasn't authorized by the government. Same with the upkeep. And as for some of the demographics, I don't see how it's possible to know the MFG capacity and GNP of the other civs.

                    I'm only saying this because I think it's very very important to only supply data that is actually attainable within the rules of the game. Otherwise it's just like playing ahead and acting upon the information; it's cheating.
                    According to one of the calculators on his site (this just being for the Casulty Calculator, but I'd think it'd be similar for all), all the information the calculator uses can be found in the Military and Demographic advisor screens. Anything input into a Green cell is a hard number from the game; anything in a yellow cell is a calculation from the hard data; and anything in a red cell is approximations from the yellow squares.

                    If you want to see it, check out the military calcs on his site -- they seem really cool , and only require Excel. (assuming you have it).

                    -- adaMada
                    Civ 3 Democracy Game:
                    PTW Game: Proud member of the Roleplay Team, and Ambassador to Glory of War
                    Intersite PTW Game: Member of Apolyton

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                    • #11
                      Ok here's the deal. You may be able to extract this data from the game, but that is no more legitimate than re-loading a save when a battle doesn't go your way. I really don't feel that this information is permissible in the spirit of the game.
                      Minister of the Economy: Term IV, V
                      Ministre d'Économie: Session IV, V
                      Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people following me!
                      Même si je suis paranoïde, ça n'exige pas qu'il n'y a pas de gens qui me suivent!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Apolytonia Defense Review (580 AD - Vol. I)

                        Originally posted by Mr. Orange We see we are the third largest miliatary in the world, with Greek and Aztec militaries slightly larger. What is disturbing is if these nations came together and declared war on Apolytonia, they would initially surmise 31% of the world's military strength, an almost 2:1 ratio.
                        So why aren't we using science to develop Military Tradition? Why are you pansies working on Printing Press?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Reddawg
                          Ok here's the deal. You may be able to extract this data from the game, but that is no more legitimate than re-loading a save when a battle doesn't go your way. I really don't feel that this information is permissible in the spirit of the game.
                          Hm?

                          As far as I understand, he's reading in values himself from the game screen (just as you do, to do your report) and then performing calculations on that data to come up with these numbers (admittedly automated calculations, performed by Excel, but still calculations). If I understand incorrectly, then I apologize, but if that's the case, I don't see how it's any different from what you've done, or BFM, or ET...

                          I think we agree, but are misunderstanding each other .

                          -- adaMada
                          Civ 3 Democracy Game:
                          PTW Game: Proud member of the Roleplay Team, and Ambassador to Glory of War
                          Intersite PTW Game: Member of Apolyton

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                          • #14
                            It's 100% impossible to gather some of this data, especially without using an Embassy/Spy to collect data. If this is what he did, use the Embassies, well this wasn't actually authorized in the game (for instance to know how many units another civ has) and so it really can't be allowed. I've been tempted to do such things but I realize and agree that it is and should be disallowed.
                            Minister of the Economy: Term IV, V
                            Ministre d'Économie: Session IV, V
                            Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people following me!
                            Même si je suis paranoïde, ça n'exige pas qu'il n'y a pas de gens qui me suivent!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Reddawg
                              It's 100% impossible to gather some of this data, especially without using an Embassy/Spy to collect data. If this is what he did, use the Embassies, well this wasn't actually authorized in the game (for instance to know how many units another civ has) and so it really can't be allowed. I've been tempted to do such things but I realize and agree that it is and should be disallowed.
                              Ok, I understand what you're saying now. I was under the impression (looking at one of the spreadsheets) that such information was being estimated from information that could be given from those two pages (and, as such, not totally accurate), not entered. Having said that, I can't check now since the link to the specific sheet in question is broken on the site (Mr. Orange, you might want to check it out), so I'll shut up and let someone who knows and isn't just guessing answer .

                              -- adaMada
                              Civ 3 Democracy Game:
                              PTW Game: Proud member of the Roleplay Team, and Ambassador to Glory of War
                              Intersite PTW Game: Member of Apolyton

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