stupid AI trick

lord of the mark · August 25, 2003, 16:22

Ok, so im still playing as deirdre on thinker level.

Im clearly number 1, and could just go to crush everyone, but I want to transcend, so im playing as pacifist as possible - er, reasonable - never declare vendetta on anyone, always accept truce if i can get it without a bribe.

Ive just ended a war with Miriam (no 2)- i had taken several of her bases, including one with an SP (WP) when she offered a truce for nothing. So I go back to perfectionist research strategy. Still at war with Santiago, but she's far away and no real threat.

Now during the war I was getting nervous - my infiltration (im Planetary gov) had revealed Miriam close to finishing a planet buster. I always hated getting nuked in civ2. No SDI-like defense that i know of. I could build my own as a deterrent, but not what I think Deirdre would do - at least not till she gets hit. So im releived (but puzzled) when Miriam goes for the truce with me.

A couple of turns later - Miriam launches her Planet buster - against Lal!!! (who is like number 3) The 3 other remaining AI players all declare Vend on Miriam, cause of the atrocity. As far as i can tell nothing makes me go to vendetta, so I dont. Now Miriam is fighting all the other AI's, well I go my merry way.

Mead · August 25, 2003, 21:11

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Ok, so im still playing as deirdre on thinker level.

Im clearly number 1, and could just go to crush everyone, but I want to transcend, so im playing as pacifist as possible - er, reasonable - never declare vendetta on anyone, always accept truce if i can get it without a bribe.
.

You can always win by Transcend regardless how aggressively you play.

As an extreme example of winning by Transcending yet not being a pacifist:

If you want (it gets kinda boring) -

- Take over almost the whole world
- Eliminate all the other factions except one
- Don't Pact with the sole surviving other faction (the game will end if you do)
- Leave it at least one base

By that time you will have raced through all the techs and will be able to build every SP you want.

On a couple of games I had so much cash that I built the Voice of Planet one turn and then Ascent to Transcendence the next turn (that takes a lot of cash).

I know the above works on Transcend difficulty with SMAC; I assume it will work with SMACX and on difficulty levels different that Transcend.

Mead

P.S. When people report getting very high scores; I believe they use the above tactics.

BTW: Regardless of whether I'm a pacifist or not I build ODP's as soon as possible and I don't build PB's. If I were to build PB's I would definitely not place them in a base I couldn't stand losing. In the few games I made PB's the game always wanted to PB the bases they were in (PB's are PB magnets).

I've never made an airbase, but one of these times I'm going to make one and see if I can base a PB there.

Jamski · August 26, 2003, 03:52

Note : if you're really kicking Miraim's arse, and she's coming to you to offer peace for nothing, try refusing. She'll more often than not increase her offer, ie all her cash for example. If you say no again, you can get the AI to surrender to you, and they give you all their cash and tech, and all the tech they every research in thr future, not to mention ALWAYS voting for you and never leaving pact. They'll even attack your enemies for "goodwill and friendship"

Don't let Mim off the hook so easily next time.

-Jam

lord of the mark · August 26, 2003, 11:19

Mead - im basically at the point where a transcend win is easy anyway. I dont find it satisfying to fight more than i have to, if only to avpid micromanaging wars.

Jamski - well yeah, I did that with Morgan and he went submissive (but then morgan i really wanted to keep fighting against, cause I was making money from each base i took) I suppose i could have done the same with Miriam - I'll do things like that when im struggling on transcend level - im on thinker and want to get the game over with already and not do "gamey" things (I suppose I could just start over on transcend level, but i prefer to finish)

Mead · August 26, 2003, 22:43

Originally posted by Jamski
Note : if you're really kicking Miraim's arse, and she's coming to you to offer peace for nothing, try refusing. She'll more often than not increase her offer, ie all her cash for example. If you say no again, you can get the AI to surrender to you, and they give you all their cash and tech, and all the tech they every research in thr future, not to mention ALWAYS voting for you and never leaving pact. They'll even attack your enemies for "goodwill and friendship"

Don't let Mim off the hook so easily next time.

-Jam

I'm generally an easy to get along with pacifist, until they declare vendetta on me. Then I don't make peace with them until I'm ready to. I won't even talk to them until I'm ready to accept their surrender. It seems if you refuse their surrender (you still want some more of their bases first), then they will no longer offer to surrender to you when you want them to later and you'll have to eliminate them.

I've developed the habit of parking one of my probe units in every base of my, now submissive ally (I'll usually place a couple of military units there too).

I started keeping a probe unit in each of their bases after a game where my submissive ally turned against me.

University surrendered to me, gave me all of their wonderful techs and cash and became my ally. About two turns later someone probed Zak and blamed it on me. Zak withdrew from the Pact and I went back to war against him.

Never let Miriam off the hook easily. Once you tip the tide against her take as much as her empire as you want. If you don't someone else will.

Mead

Googlie · August 29, 2003, 20:54

Originally posted by lord of the mark

Jamski - well yeah, I did that with Morgan and he went submissive (but then morgan i really wanted to keep fighting against, cause I was making money from each base i took)

With Morgan as a submissive just ask him every turn for credits - he'll even go into debt to buy your techs from you (and you want him to have all your techs so that he researches ones that you don't have)

As a pacifist, another good strategy is to give the AI every tech that they ask from you - ask for cash, and if they give the sob story just give it to them anyway. It makes the AI stronger, therefore more interesting (but also keeps your own research costs down as they'll be closer to you in # techs - assuming you are in the tech lead)

G.

Mead · August 29, 2003, 21:24

Originally posted by Googlie

With Morgan as a submissive just ask him every turn for credits - he'll even go into debt to buy your techs from you (and you want him to have all your techs so that he researches ones that you don't have)

***

G.

Will he then sell it?

I always was afraid to give up my techs to anyone, particularly Morgan, because I thought they would just make a quick buck by selling it to my enemies?

Can you trust him not to sell it?

Mead

Googlie · August 29, 2003, 21:29

Hmm - good point. The AI can give you a free tech with a "guard it carefully" warning (and, yes, if you then turn around and sell or trade it they'll never give you another freebie in that game)

I haven't found a way to gift it to the AI with the same caveat, though. But I usually try to have the AI get all my techs anyway, just to keep the game more on edge, so I really wouldn't care if he did (all the more ec's for me to demand next turn!!)

G.

Hydro · September 2, 2003, 13:52

Be very careful about selling/giving tech to the AI. They will sell it to whomever has some cash. In an game a long time ago my submissive Morgan sold all my tech I had given him to my arch enemy Miriam: fusion, orbital spaceflight – real nasty stuff. That was a salient lesson. The only exception: the AI will not sell to those they are at war with (obviously). So, I will sell/give techs to allies/submissives AFTER I tell them to go to war against my enemies. Check every now and then to make sure they are not at peace in case you miss the announcement you generally get. This way you create blocks of ‘friends’ and ‘foes’. Then you can happily feed the ‘nice’ AIs, keeping them competitive and prosperous allies.

Hydro

TimeTraveler · September 2, 2003, 15:06

Originally posted by lord of the mark
A couple of turns later - Miriam launches her Planet buster - against Lal!!! (who is like number 3) The 3 other remaining AI players all declare Vend on Miriam, cause of the atrocity. As far as i can tell nothing makes me go to vendetta, so I dont. Now Miriam is fighting all the other AI's, well I go my merry way.

A number of months ago, I played a Thinker level game (as the University, of course,) where Yang nuked the Believers. For quite a while, I was the only faction not at war until Yang declared vendetta upon me, which as you can imagine, was an even larger mistake than launching a planet buster when the UN council was still up.