One wonder

Bob_Smurf42 · May 24, 2003, 14:58

If you could build or capture only one wonder in th whole game, which would it be?

Jac de Molay · May 24, 2003, 15:13

Probably Leo's, with the pyramids a close second.

It's really nice to pick up those unit upgrades, and eliminates the hassle of upgrading garrisons and naval units along the way. A very nice wonder.

Bob_Smurf42 · May 24, 2003, 15:16

Part 2 is here.

Six Thousand Year Old Man · May 24, 2003, 15:50

I said HG. Wonders are more important in the early game, IMO, because later on, you can make up for not having wonders by substituting the relevant improvement, or changing governments.

HG is IMO the best early wonder... this my vote.

Smash · May 24, 2003, 17:52

I think most people would choose Hanging Gardens for normal games.Even for OCC it can be beneficial.The higher the difficulty level,the more powerful it becomes.Not a game breaker though.Not even in MP.Sure helps though.

Straybow · May 24, 2003, 19:55

I like Cope's. Doesn't expire, makes powerful SSC.

SCG · May 24, 2003, 22:28

last time we had this discussion - we wound up qualifying it as we were in the midst of the OCC fortnights and, well, its kinda tough to win an OCC game without Apollo

that said, HG provides one of the biggest boosts to the early game, and really sets the tone for the rest of the game. I'm also a little surprised that Copes and Leo got votes (and pyramids got mentioned) before any mention of Sun Tzu

Cobra · May 25, 2003, 06:56

If I could build only one wonder, that would be one with an effect, which could not be achieved with normal buildings. In the early phase of the game HG or lighthouse, later it would be Bach or Magellan. Cause not each game is an island game, I choose Bach.

SCG · May 25, 2003, 08:28

/me is just kinda curious who the practical joker is who chose eiffel tower

DrSpike · May 25, 2003, 10:01

Always depends on the game...........but I'd have to go HG.

War4ever · May 25, 2003, 17:30

land based games...HG, its benefits are huge and its 200shields only.....

multi small island world, LH b/c its cheap and vet boats.... or perhaps magellans for the extra movemnt

depends on how much naval conflict you expect to have early i think......magellans is twice the cost but serves your purpose better late, LH is great for that early important island finding

War4ever · May 25, 2003, 17:31

i must say i like pyramids too, cheap, awesome growth with no restrictions and if you have alot of cities it will save some money all game on upkeep...

the main reason is for the fast growth tho

rah · May 25, 2003, 20:25

HG early gets you that quick boost. And an early boost is such an advantage. Others have their own special nice things, but they can be made up for.

Alice · May 26, 2003, 02:07

Michelangelo's Chapel, Pyramids are a close second. I like wonders that never expire.

Scouse Gits · May 26, 2003, 06:38

Gardens - with no serious competition!!!

SG[1]

Straybow · May 26, 2003, 21:11

No one 'fessed up to voting for Eiffel? Dang Frogs

General Maximus · May 26, 2003, 23:33

if you could only build or capture one wonder, thats easy...make your opponent build it, and you capture it. Doesn't matter which one...

rah · May 27, 2003, 08:25

Yes, Maximus just captured the Eiffel tower.

If it's a duel, anything but the GL.

War4ever · May 27, 2003, 14:52

or eiffel tower..... or marco polos haha.....or united nations

rah · May 28, 2003, 12:16

A while back someone built marco on me in a duel after unsuccessfully trying to slip a few diplos in.

RAH
Yes, pretty pathetic.

War4ever · May 29, 2003, 00:08

really, the worst was someone building GL on me...

i guess he was pissed i built suns, gw and mics all in one turn...haha

rah · May 29, 2003, 08:27

You would normally think that the person got stuck building it, but that would take some real stupidity.

Willi · May 29, 2003, 08:53

I think in gae versus 6 Computer-Civs Marco Polo is a good choice to get early a lot of money and technologies. I think it's more powerful then the Gardens and expires later.

War4ever · May 29, 2003, 11:37

but its real easy to make up for marcos.....i like it, and agree it can pay off in a big way, but HG is the cornerstone of any expanding empire....

Ming · May 29, 2003, 16:45

As stated by many... In SP, you should be killing the AI soon enough... a fast start is what really counts. So I vote for HG. After 0 AD, you really don't need wonders to win.

War4ever · May 29, 2003, 18:06

Still , i have seen some poor maps in sp .....there are some challenges out there...but eventually it becomes a domino effect

Ming · May 30, 2003, 02:47

Once I understood the game, even a poor map wasn't a challange. Come on, we can win with one city... how tough can it be. GO MP.

Scouse Gits · May 30, 2003, 02:53

Ming - although I agree in principle - the final outcome is seldom in doubt in a SP game - that does not equate to boring or lacking in fun.
Yes we can win with a single city - but how long did it take us to manage this ...

SG[1]

Ming · May 30, 2003, 03:37

True... it is never really in doubt anymore

But I didn't say it was boring... just not much of a challange

I remember when people laughed about how IT COULDN'T BE DONE WITH ONE CITY... then I did it. And then Paul came along and blew it away

SP is an easy win... no matter what strategy or limitations you put on yourself.

Thank God for MP

lord of the mark · May 30, 2003, 09:44

Originally posted by Ming
True... it is never really in doubt anymore

But I didn't say it was boring... just not much of a challange

I remember when people laughed about how IT COULDN'T BE DONE WITH ONE CITY... then I did it. And then Paul came along and blew it away

SP is an easy win... no matter what strategy or limitations you put on yourself.

Thank God for MP

I was never able to win with Pauls menu in TOT ( ive heard the same is true for MGE). Ive heard it is possible to win OCC in MGE/TOT, but harder.

And im under the impression that a peaceful, perfectionist win with a few cities is harder than OCC (under non-mge/tot) Is that not the case?

Playing with TOT, and preferring peaceful perfectionist strat to destorying the AI early, and not using a lot of the gamier stuff (oedo years, shipchaining etc) and not knowing every strat, and not having a lot of patience for micromanagement, and occasionally being sloppy (hitting a wrong key or whatever) (which to me is analogous to real world command and control problems)
I still manage to find SP deity challenging.

Now i suppose if i played it constantly i would find even that easy. But frankly i found the whole enterprise somewhat boring before i got to that level of expertise.

I also played Scens, and the TOT games.

Since ive gone to other games, and am now playing SMAC.

I still think Civ2 is a landmark of strategy gaming - i am amazed at how much replayability there is in it, and how many things you can do with it.

But the notion that SP is simply an "easy win" is true only for a small minority of hard core civvers, who either have more intensity, more familiarity with strats due to fora like this, or who have spent more time with the game (or are very good strategists, i suppose).

I enjoyed civ2 for its unique approach to certain historical themes. Once the game reaches the point were it becomes completely abstract, where i lose site of the historical and political and grand strategic issues in a maze of gamey caravan rules, wonder beelines, micromanagement, etc the game is played out for me.

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