Vikings

[ariano_paluda]

I just bought the expansion, and since I am a dane, I thought that I wanted to play the game as the vikings...

So with that in mind, I just wanted to ask for pros and cons In relation to them, and their UU...

anyone?!?

Ariano Paluda

[bvoncranium]

There's a brief evaluation of the Berserk, along with a lot of good info regarding where the Vikings stand relative to the other Civs, in the following post:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=73721
Cheers, b

[SalvationArmy]

Hi There.

Personally, I mainly play solo rather than MP, and I've had good experiences with the Vikings and their UU. It's true that in some ways the Berserks are expensive for what they are by the time you get to build them, but you don't have to view them as overpriced cannon fodder. Only use them as infantry if you have to.

The marine landing ability is really useful against defenders up to and including muskets, if you can commit a few to an attack. Against spearmen and pikemen they do very well. I had a lot of good fighting with them by using them as first-wave shock troops to grab beachheads that were occupied by enemy units, or to take a coast town so I could sail into it with another boatful of conventional units; you then get to unload these with the boat's last move, leaving the units with their move to either fortify in the newly-seized town, or to sally out if they were offensive units.

With knights or cavalry in the boats, you can land them in town, attack/pillage out of town, and then get them back safe and fortified in the same turn. Used right, your first attack will leave you with a string of coast towns with fortified defenders and offensive troops with free moves to clear the enemy away from the walls. As opposed to landing on the beach and taking the brunt of their attack in the open and unfortified before attacking the town, it can be a winner. Their relatively high attack strength against the defensive strength of contemporary units makes this viable and gets your invasion off to a rolling start.

Even with diminished or improvised raiding parties made up of rested stragglers, you can often have quick wins against poorly defended towns behind the front line. You don't have to go for towns you want to keep, but grabbing and razing 6 or 8 small coast towns hurts the other guy's productivity and profit and distracts defensive forces away from the front line. A good high-value nuisance tactic. You might even find a strategic resource or luxury on the coast, or a column of unfortified reinforcements heading for the front line . . .

I can see how this could be different against human players, especially in a MP game with different time pressures, but against the AI Berserks can be great.

Sorry to get carried away, but I like these units. I chewed up a big Arab empire in just this way and had great fun.

[ariano_paluda]

read the link you posted bvon..thanx, for the input...keep 'em coming

Ariano Paluda

[Lucarse]

Viking berserkers are only really useful on an archipelago type map where 70-80% of cities will be on a coastline.

with 5-6 galleys and two berserkers in each you have an early-ish force which is UNSTOPPABLE up until rifleman (with musketmen it just takes a few more bererkers).

I played a game on such a map and managed %70 domination before the 1600's and for me thats un-heard of.
(don't laugh deity players)

[David Murray]

I'm sorry, but units with an offensive value of 6 in an age when comparable defenders are hundreds of years away are useful for more than shore attacks!

The Vikings are one of my preferred civilizations because of the Berserk. Forget cathedrals and knights, and build lots of Berserks. You will have a heck of a lot of fun conquering your neighbours with them!

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I loathe the vikings, and here's why.

I play on a huge world with continents, and I play with cultural linking on. This means there's a very good chance I'm going to be starting next to at least 2 other expansionists (England and Russia), degrading the value of my scouts. Furthermore, I'll be starting next to 2 other militaristic civs (Germany and the Celts). Furthermore, with the exception of England and France, my neighbors will all be able to put some effort in building up their culture. After I have REXed, there are two common occurences:

a. I am behind in the tech race and struggling to keep up culturally

b. I have really made an all-out effort to keep up in both tech and culture, but one of my neighbors decides to pluck off one or two of my peripheral cities, often important ones linked to the luxury or resource (principally the Celts, but often the Russians)

Assuming I make it to the medival era in a good position (either on my own, or by taking out a neighbor or two with swordsmen, horsemen or archers), I'll STILL fall behind the Germans and Russians (unless they're gone) with their free tech.

If I DO keep up with them, I've got lots of good wonders to build, but it'll be a tough race, as I need to build an absurdly expensive UU linked to INVENTION to trigger my GA.

Assuming I get all this done, I'll be in a pretty strong position, but if there's anyone overseas keeping up with tech...

...but you get my point. Vikings: not my #1 choice.

On an archipelago world, on the other hand...

[Jethro83]

I usually play on continent maps, but I still find the Vikings to be an excellent civ, and I still love using their UU. Since it is the best attacker of the time, there is less need for artillery units (which would be catapults/cannons at this point. Not very powerful anyway).

While I don't play with culturally linked starts, it is very easy to take out the other expansionists with an early archer rush. I use more archers for my offensives, with catapults and spearmen, and swordsmen forming the backbone.

I rush for the Great Library and pull my science level all the way down, while my galleys explore the rest of the world, to make sure I don't fall behind anyone overseas (contact with them is enough for their techs with the GL).

Once I reach the middle ages, I'll start researching again, making a beeline for Invention. Using the extra cash raised without having to worry about science, I'll upgrade a few of my archers to berserks. I'll use them along with medieval infantry and pikemen, putting my catapults away for when I can upgrade them to artillery in the industrial era.

Using the golden age, I'll race for Sistine Chapel and Leo's Workshop (but especially Leo's Workshop). If I get the LW, I upgrade the rest of my archers to berserks and step up my offensive. I will also build up knights in preparation for an upgrade to cavalry once Military Tradition is reached.

Using my approach, I once wiped out the Egyptians, Mongols, Celts and Ottomons VERY quickly. Especially considering how much slower armies move when the backbone of them moves on foot.

[nationalist]

Vikings have to start next to the Germans My suggestion: turn off Culturally linked starts

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Lord Azreal,

You must have uncanny luck. My archer rushes can always take out a foe or two, even those pesky Russkies, but it always leaves me dead behind in the tech race. I've never tried 0% science/buying all my techs... that might work. I'll try it next time I play as the Vikings (which will be a LONG time )

Those Berserks come too late to trigger the GA for my taste. By the time I get to invention, some jerk's generally well on his/her way to Sistine, my fav wonder.

Now, if one of my ancient wars netted me a leader, then I'd build the HE, which would give me a good chance at other great leaders to rush build wonders when I'm in a pinch. At least, that's the theory, right?

But for some reason... I don't know why... in my last 5 games (all as Vikings), I've netted a total of 4 great leaders! (2 in my current game!)

As for galleys exploring the world... on a huge map, this is less feasible (though still a good idea, esp. with the Great Lighthouse)

But I've yet to try the Vikings on continents on a < huge map.