Should America be a civ?

aaglo · February 18, 2003, 06:25

Of course it should. Every game should have allies and enemies. Guess where the murricans fit just fine

j/k

TacticalGrace · February 18, 2003, 07:22

Originally posted by Ribannah

Only a minority of the Americans descended from the English.

But the american culture and language is to a very large degree descended from the English.

The Iroquois were never Sioux, just like the Russians were never Spanish. They didn't call their land or empire America either. If you want to give them their proper name, calling them Haudenosaunee (people of the longhouse) instead of Iroquois (they who smoke) would do. They named North-America Turtle Island.

Do you think that the Germans call their country Germany? It is conventional (at least in the English language version of civ) to name all the civs and cities in English.

Of course I'm sure in your setup you rename Germany to Deutschland and India to Hindustan.

Whether or not this convention is a bit dumb is a topic for another debate. Assuming this convention, the Iroquois should be called the Americans.

Panag · February 18, 2003, 07:31

Originally posted by TacticalGrace

But the american culture and language is to a very large degree descended from the English.

Do you think that the Germans call their country Germany? It is conventional (at least in the English language version of civ) to name all the civs and cities in English.

Of course I'm sure in your setup you rename Germany to Deutschland and India to Hindustan.

Whether or not this convention is a bit dumb is a topic for another debate. Assuming this convention, the Iroquois should be called the Americans.

hi ,

and what to do then with countries that have more then one language , .......

have a nice day

TacticalGrace · February 18, 2003, 08:37

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

and what to do then with countries that have more then one language , .......

Hindustan does have more than one language.

But you knew that...

...didn't you?

XarXo · February 18, 2003, 09:32

Originally posted by Ribannah
It is Iceland that has the longest history of Democracy, followed by the Iroquois who introduced the participatory form.

Yes, but a democracy in an independent state with an own constitution?

Iceland doesn't create a constitution till 1874.

Iroquois... Hmmm... Probably a democratic system was just implanted to avoid conflicts between tribal chiefs. The good point of democratic elections is the standar idea of 1 human, 1 vote, that's all. Probably the same happened with greeks when they had the problem of select leaders in Capitol Cities states (well, Athina was indoubtably the leader).

Actually this system doesn't apply, just because some humans live in huge regions to maintain, while millions of others live in small regions with a dense capitol.

Ribannah · February 18, 2003, 09:42

Originally posted by TacticalGrace
Do you think that the Germans call their country Germany? It is conventional (at least in the English language version of civ) to name all the civs and cities in English.
..
Whether or not this convention is a bit dumb is a topic for another debate. Assuming this convention, the Iroquois should be called the Americans.

Ehhm, Iroquois is not an English word. It's Iroquois, spelled like it was French. (Original: 'ie-ro-kwa'.)
Most of the Iroquois city names aren't English either.

Oh, and America is far from unique in being formed by members of more than one older tribe. The same holds for most of the civs that are in the game. So a special way of introducing them makes no sense.

Ribannah · February 18, 2003, 09:57

Originally posted by XarXo
Yes, but a democracy in an independent state with an own constitution?

Goverment form and written constitution are two different things, one is not needed to have the other.

The good point of democratic elections is the standar idea of 1 human, 1 vote, that's all. Probably the same happened with greeks when they had the problem of select leaders in Capitol Cities states

Greece as a nation didn't have a democracy, some Greek cities came close but still excluded many citizens.

There is, however, more than one way to organize a democracy.
It can be done without any elections at all, but generally representatives are chosen. Further, sometimes a majority suffices, sometimes a qualified majority or unanimity (Iroquois) is needed to make decisions.

TacticalGrace · February 18, 2003, 10:45

Originally posted by Ribannah

Ehhm, Iroquois is not an English word. It's Iroquois, spelled like it was French. (Original: 'ie-ro-kwa'.)
Most of the Iroquois city names aren't English either.

Actually it is an English word and you'll find it in a lot of english dictionaries. They way that language works is that if there is no alternative a foreign word will be used and absorbed into the language. There is no word other than Iroquois which can be used.

Oh, and America is far from unique in being formed by members of more than one older tribe. The same holds for most of the civs that are in the game. So a special way of introducing them makes no sense.

and the classic example being...?

Ribannah · February 18, 2003, 11:43

Originally posted by TacticalGrace
Actually it is an English word and you'll find it in a lot of english dictionaries. They way that language works is that if there is no alternative a foreign word will be used and absorbed into the language. There is no word other than Iroquois which can be used.

Sure there is. You could translate it into Smoker Nation, or you could call them People of the Longhouse.

and the classic example being...?

It is rather ordinary, but maybe France is easy to do some research on.

Panag · February 18, 2003, 17:49

Originally posted by TacticalGrace

Actually it is an English word and you'll find it in a lot of english dictionaries. They way that language works is that if there is no alternative a foreign word will be used and absorbed into the language. There is no word other than Iroquois which can be used.

and the classic example being...?

hi ,

your "ie-ro-kwa" is found in an old dictionary , .... in a french one , the base is french , ..... and a similar english version does not have it , .... yet it reads "dic for the new territories" , ......

have a nice day

panag upholding the flag >

sorry Rib no Iro flag found to use with that , maybe you could use it for you with an iroquois flag , .....

Ribannah · February 18, 2003, 18:02

Thanks, Panag.

(How they you get hold of such an old dictionary?

Panag · February 18, 2003, 18:08

Originally posted by Ribannah
Thanks, Panag.

(How they you get hold of such an old dictionary?

hi ,

simple , europe is full with these books , most are for sale for the price of a pack of smokes , .... the leather on the outside is worth more then what people ask for it , .....

example , maps ; all the national geographic maps can be bought on CD-rom but also the real deal that you can touch for less then 100 dollars or euro's , .....

very intreseting those maps , .......

have a nice day

Aramis · February 18, 2003, 22:35

Originally posted by TacticalGrace
|the fact is that America does stand out among the other civilizations because it doesn't even have it's own distinct language.

yeah, we do. we just named it after yous guys cuz we kinda like ya. Sorta wanna look afta yez. Pulled yerazzes outta the fire twice. Nowhotimeen?

ah--fugedaboutit!

Chilean President™ · February 18, 2003, 22:37

EDIT: that "fugedaboutit!" remind me to turn on HBO, to watch The Sopranos

Master Zen · February 18, 2003, 23:09

Originally posted by rmds

yeah, we do. we just named it after yous guys cuz we kinda like ya. Sorta wanna look afta yez. Pulled yerazzes outta the fire twice. Nowhotimeen?

ah--fugedaboutit!

Oh these gringos...still thinking they saved the world twice...

Aramis · February 18, 2003, 23:29

Originally posted by Master Zen

Oh these gringos...still thinking they saved the world twice...

Thought we did.

Aramis · February 18, 2003, 23:33

Originally posted by Chilean President

that "fugedaboutit!" remind me to turn on HBO, to watch The Sopranos

Maybe conquered the world through TV?
God help us--what have we done?

Mr. President · February 18, 2003, 23:37

Not another one of these threads!

Chilean President™ · February 18, 2003, 23:39

Originally posted by rmds

Maybe conquered the world through TV?
God help us--what have we done?

well you did it... I confess! 'Tony Soprano', Jerry Seinfeld, 'Rachel Green' and 'President Bartlet' are the common guys on my TV.

and of course, A&E + The History Channel.

Mr. President · February 18, 2003, 23:44

Hmm. All the History Channel shows in Australia is reruns of about three distinct World War II shows.

Lately I've rediscovered an old friend from my family's past - Gilligan's Island.

Master Zen · February 18, 2003, 23:47

Originally posted by Mr. President
Hmm. All the History Channel shows in Australia is reruns of about three distinct World War II shows.

I could watch those forever!

Chilean President™ · February 18, 2003, 23:49

Originally posted by Mr. President
Hmm. All the History Channel shows in Australia is reruns of about three distinct World War II shows.

Lately I've rediscovered an old friend from my family's past - Gilligan's Island.

WWII reruns=

Giligan's Island= not too much of a fan

'Mary Ann'=

Mr. President · February 18, 2003, 23:50

Trust me, when you reach the point where you can recite Ari Nussbaum's lines by heart, you'll reach for the remote control.

Mr. President · February 18, 2003, 23:51

'Mary Ann'

Heh heh.

Remember the days when actresses had waists?

Chilean President™ · February 19, 2003, 00:03

Originally posted by Mr. President
Remember the days when actresses had waists?

Thanks God we have reruns

Panag · February 19, 2003, 12:41

Originally posted by Ribannah
Thanks, Panag.

(How they you get hold of such an old dictionary?

hi ,

oh yeah , almost forgot ;

you can ask many lib's to lend out rare books , ...

or copies of them , very soon several huge Italian lib's shall start with PDF , copies of original pages and the translation in several languages , ...

have a nice day

Jaguar · February 20, 2003, 19:18

Originally posted by Chilean President
"Norteamericano" could be a mexican too. "Yanks", only for the northern states, right?
What I mean is that the country don't have a name "of his own", as the states that compose the country have. Is kind of weird, but I think is the only nation in the world that uses the same name of their own continent.

Would you like to make a bet?