The Sticky Mouse Senate - Succession Game

[Scouse Gits]

This one is in 2.42 with random settings on a map of 100 x 100 squares. AI civs are allowed to restart

There is only one special condition. After Despotism the only change of government allowed is to Republic. No Monarchy! Anybody who builds SoL will..............

4000 - Two potential consuls leaning on their shovels, both with the knowledge of Bronze Working
3850 - Hut/Horse
3800 - Hut/Chariot
3750 - Hut/Archer
3700 - This is bad news! Not one whale in sight... but a river comes into view
3650 - Hut/Masonry (Would have preferred something useful )
3550 - Hut/Archer Sticky Mouse founded..not a perfect capital but it's on a river with access to wine, coal and buffalo. The Institute founded with pheasant and wheat.
3500 - As we are rich in NON units the capital goes straight into wonder production!
3400 - Still no whales
3350 - Hut/Archer...another one...but we have neighbours as it's a non!
3300 - Hut/Advanced Tribe Consul's Retreat
3200 - Signs of irrigation spotted!
3150 - Alphabet Now for Writing Athens Sighted!
3100 - Greeks sneak attack...now a veteran Archer! Athens sacked and The Wheel taken (more useless tech )with 11g in plunder. Greeks destroyed...for the time Athens renamed South Senate.
3050 - Hut/50g
3000 - Hut/Ceremonial Burial...and a whale sighted east of South Senate.
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All are welcome to join Next player download and play..but post to say you have the game. Others sign up so I can make a list.

SG(2)

[El Civ]

I would much prefer to play in this game instead of the Priestess to the Stars game. I am still having shut-down problems with the MGE patch but 2.42 seems to work fine. If none have d-loaded the game and played by this early evening I will do so and play (I'll be at work until then).

[Scouse Gits]

OK El Civ.....if anyone can play before El Civ please jump in.
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SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

I want in ...
Can probably play before El Civ gets back from work - but will post if this be the case...

SG[1]

[Scouse Gits]

I have the game - will play now ...

SG[1]

[Scouse Gits]

[1] Hope you find Pottery somewhere. I had hoped it might have been a Greek science.

The list at present:
SG(2) Played
SG[1] Playing
El Civ
STYOM playing but not until Tuesday
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SG(2)

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Good looking start SG(2)

Put me on the list as well, please - though with a notation that I can't play until Tuesday at the earliest.

STYOM

[Scouse Gits]

Good to have you aboard STYOM...will slot you in after a couple of days

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SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

Sticky Mouse Senate Game:

3000 =
2950 = river system with spice located
2900 = and a whale!
2850 =
2800 =
2750 = Settlers from The Institute; hut - supported Horseman; hut - Map Making
2700 =
2650 =
2600 =
2550 = Ides of March founded where (I hope if I have the special pattern right) there could be a whale out to sea; hut - 50g; tickle some Settlers
2500 =
2450 =
2400 = hut - Caesar's Palace
2350 = hut - Lucky Git; Settlers tickled
2300 = South Senate trains Settlers
2250 = Writing -> Code of Laws; tickle Settlers

I pass the mantle of proto-Consul to my most able successor ...

SG[1]

[Scouse Gits]

and the game ...

I too had hoped to pop Pottery - nearly selected it in stead of CoL - but thought the pre-senate would fry me if I did

[Julius Brenzaida]

Count me on for this one
Unless you are afraid that some Julius might cast a bad spell over a strong republic of almost 5 centuries
But history never repeats itself
BTW, Women Suffrage will be a good wonder

[El Civ]

I have the game and will hopefully have it back on the board this evening.

[Scouse Gits]

Glad to have you playing El Civ & Julius.

I suggest that El Civ plays now...then Julius.

So the new order reads:

SG(2) Played
SG[1] Played
El Civ Playing
Julius Next in line
La Fayette
Messer Niccolò
By which time it could be Tuesday and STYOM

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SG(2)

[La Fayette]

A Republic started by Englishmen?
I must have a talk with my friend George Smiley to fix this .
Anyway I feel that a 'sans culotte' is going to be badly needed after such a start.
Count me in.

[Messer Niccolò]

Did I read "sticky mouse"?
... I remeber, I washed dishes there with some old friends...
What can stop me?
Kryptonite? ... naaah, my modem!
But I hope tomorrow this will be fixed... since is a 2.42 and not a MGE I'll happily join!

... do I have to wash dishes again?

[Scouse Gits]

@ La Fayette & Messer Niccolò...happy you can both play and welcome to the world of Sticky Mickey

PS The English did have a republic (Commonwealth) from 1649 - 1660. But we gave it up as we thought it might lead to the French system of elections - in which you have to vote for a right wing politician (Chirac) even if you are left wing...to keep out an extremist like Le Pen
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SG(2)

[El Civ]

Civus the Despot ascends to power. Some say power was obtained through duplicity, others say through nepotism. The truth lies in the fact that Civus gifted the Gits with red, red wine and was rewarded with power.

2200 Consul’s Retreat and The Institute both build settlers. If I understand things correctly we don’t want to keep founding cities under despotism or our citizens will begin rebelling against us. Therefore Consul’s Retreat begins training a denizen in the art of diplomacy and The Institute begins work on a barracks.
2150
2100
2050
2000 Popped hut yields….mathematics.
1950 The northern tip of our land has been explored and a future city with four specials awaits.
1900
1850 Popped hut reveals new technology. Could this be pottery? Sigh. No, it’s code of laws.
1800 As our next technology to research I choose currency (pottery was not available).
1750
1700 The Egyptian capital has moved to Heliopolis. Perhaps they needed a heli-port on the palace roof, hence the move.
1650 The French have undertaken the pyramids.
1600
1550
1500

Well, if the choice of building a dip and barracks were not idiotic then my reign was safely mundane. Our nation has only 30 gold, finds a new discovery every 21 turns and has a population of 200,000 (first in the game). If I am incorrect about the unrest that I wished to avoid then please straighten me out. I hate malcontents and the unrest they cause. Makes me wish there were death squads in this game. In fact, please critique anything you disagree with that I did. BTW, unless otherwise stated the other cities that finished with warriors (Caesar’s Palace, Ides of March and I think one other) are now building settlers. Also, a hut is but one square away from our chariot, just waiting to be tipped.

Seeing that the Git’s wine is all but gone, Civus decides that having no real laurels to rest upon he should relinquish his power. He leaves his mantle and mace upon the throne for the next ruler and retires to Caesar’s Palace, where he will imbibe in free drinks as long as he stays at the blackjack table.

[Bloody Monk]

Interesting problem, this; should be fun. Looks like you have a full roster, though. I would enjoy standing in if anyone needs to drop out later.

Point of information: how many cities in Rep (on this size map) before the next city starts out unhappy. I know...someone will surely choose Pottery and build the Gardens before the game gets to Republic...but just in case, how many cities???

[El Civ]

The answer as to how many cities before unhapiness sets in can be found in the Great Library. Dave V has the limit at 8 under Republic at Deity level. Here is the thread


http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001279.html

BTW, I suppose the saved game will be needed

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by El Civ
The answer as to how many cities before unhapiness sets in can be found in the Great Library. Dave V has the limit at 8 under Republic at Deity level. Here is the thread


http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001279.html

BTW, I suppose the saved game will be needed

Yeah, I had that link in mind when I asked '(on this size map)'. Does the map size change the factors...I thought I remembered reading that it did. Also, I was making a subliminal nudge toward building the Gardens and I didn't see your post pointing the same way. We were composing/writing at the same time I think.

So, is it size 8, possibly adjusted for map size?? Just wondering while I munch on my popcorn.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
the French system of elections - in which you have to vote for a right wing politician (Chirac) even if you are left wing...to keep out an extremist like Le Pen
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SG(2)

Please, don't move your knife along my wound

[La Fayette]

Back to topic
IIRC 8 is max number of cities without red faces under Republic on standard map, but this one is played on a large map isn't it?
(not much of a concern though IMO: you build until you see one red face, then you stop building new cities until you get strong help (HG, Mike and the like).
Our problem NOW is that the limit is much lower under despotism (that's why it might be useful to build the Oracle, even if we also wish to build HG).

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette I agree...once we have the Gardens our initial happiness problems will be solved...then we go forward to look at Mike's etc.

El Civ Don't worry about building cities as we need a large power base for a successful empire. Tackle unhappiness when it arises...use Elvis or in a promising city a temple.

Bloody Monk You are welcome to join us. With you we have 8 players.

SG(2) Played
SG[1] Played
El Civ Played
Julius is on
La Fayette
Messer Niccolò
By which time it could be Tuesday and STYOM
And room for BM if he wants to play

The pace of progress is good...let's keep moving.

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SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

Gentle Critique

El Civ -
The Dip is always useful, but more so when we have funds to support him - I left you with an empty treasury - feeling that the priority was to get cities working the discovered Whales - our research is relatively pathetic at this stage.
The Barracks is probably premature - we have no known foes and slow building laundrettes ties up the production capacity of a city for 500 years or more - it might become a Temple later in its growth.
My biggest question mark lies in your choice of Currency - it is sad that Pottery was not on offer, but what about Literacy? We do need to get out of Despotism asap.

All the above meant to be constructive and not critical

SG[1]

[El Civ]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Gentle Critique

El Civ -
The Dip is always useful, but more so when we have funds to support him - I left you with an empty treasury - feeling that the priority was to get cities working the discovered Whales - our research is relatively pathetic at this stage.

Yes, I have a tendency to forget about support costs (gold) of units. My reasoning was that there was still unexplored land on our continent and having a dip near the unexplored area might be beneficial, but I did forget about the cost factor.

The Barracks is probably premature - we have no known foes and slow building laundrettes ties up the production capacity of a city for 500 years or more - it might become a Temple later in its growth.
My biggest question mark lies in your choice of Currency - it is sad that Pottery was not on offer, but what about Literacy? We do need to get out of Despotism asap.

All the above meant to be constructive and not critical

SG[1]

And it is accepted as constructive. I wish to play so I can learn from you all. I chose currency to get us to trade, especially since we have triremes, in hopes of boosting our economy. I suppose I viewed Republic as quite a ways away, though it really isn't, and saw currency (to trade) as more immediately helpful. Your point is well received as we most certainly do need to be rid of this form of government. Thank you for the constructive critique.

[Julius Brenzaida]

Allright ! I have downloaded and will play as soon as possible. The senate has a new leader

[Scouse Gits]

I think you misunderstood my first point - it is not that there is a support cost for a diplomat (in fact, like Caravans & Freights they have NO support under all forms of gov) but that at least half of the strength of a Dip is his ability to bribe inconvenient units - this however does require funds.

SG[1]

[Bloody Monk]

SG(2), et al

Thanks for the invitation; I would love to play, as I have much to learn. All commentary on gameplay is welcome. Those last posts were very illuminating.

Do we need feeder cities So. of the Cap?? Close by source of camels and, shorter distance from the Cap=lower corruption. Please advise later when or if courthouses will be required...I've never played a no Monarcy path, but imagine corruption and waste will mount with city size. Just trying to think ahead.

[Bloody Monk]

As this is my first Succession game, better ask if there are any technical points I should know about posting the saves, etc???

[Julius Brenzaida]

While I am not an ICS specialist at all, I used to play a lot in republic, so In will maybe teach a little more at the Insistute as in other succession games.

1500 bc. The situation does not look great. 21 turns for next discovery and it’s neither republic, nor trade. What I really don’t like is the situation of our cities : they are way too far apart : big corruption as we must remain for a long while in despotism, and the sites in themselves are not all gorgeous. (Lucky Git was not that lucky)
1450 bc. Barbarians appear within range of our settler near Consul’s Retreat. The city is well named and undefendable. Let’s say that we should get many none units from there in the future. What’s more if we want only 8 thriving cities, it was too far away from our main cities and didn’t use any special. All this to say that my thumb is down and I won’t pay for saving it. Not that we could with our 32 pieces of gold. The gods of the huts were not with us and should not have been tempted. Is there any chicken to drown ?
1400 bc. We continue exploring.
1350 bc,. Barbs don’t attack us. What after my brillant farewell speech to CR ? Either the AI is too stupid, either there was another military and foreign objective near us.
1300 bc. Horrendous to say, but without trade, we have almost nothing constructive to build. Military units will cost shields under republic and we don’t need, I think, too many cities. Mare Nostrum without merchants is quite gloom.
1250 bc. We discover currency and I greedily select trade (25 turns). Literacy wasn’t proposed anyway.
1200 bc. We continue exploring. I’ve decided not to open huts because bad techs could really put us out of it. The continent is big and I hope to meet some civ to trade (hmm I like that word) good techs. In this idea, a trireme is build and some diplos (eh we have to build something that won’t const neither shields nor coins, it will be tough to afford to waste any of those when we finally reach republic). A look at the top cities tells us that Thebes is owned by the Barbarians. The French seem to be the civ to meet.
1150 bc. We meet the Chinese. They don’t offer to exchange techs, they’re probably worse than us but give 100 gold.
1100-1050 bc. We start exploring a new continent, on the south.
1000 bc. The city of Spiceatilum is founded. I am more guided by the ambition of doing something than by reason. At least it has a whale and a spice for nice trade routes. BTW, some light hope : science is now : 17 turns.