Most powerful wonder?

Hanibal · April 8, 2000, 08:47

I'm looking for opinions on which wonder you think is the ultimate trump card. In my own personal opinion it's the Labyrinth (unlimited trade routes;Yum!). What do you think?

Interesting side question: What's the lamest?

Tilemacho · April 8, 2000, 10:53

First of all you must clear if you are talking about the 1.2 patch only or the Apolyton Pack with CD's mod.
For the Original game:
The Labyrinth is very strong but only in games that have big map or many good...
The London Exchange is in my opinion the strongest and then the Labyrinth.
Also very strong the Edison's Lab.
I won't talk about the Sensorium,or the AI Entity because the come up late in the Game and I think in most games the winner will be sertain.
For Apolyton Pack:
Laburinth only if you can build 2-3 monopolies.
The London and the internet.

bongo · April 10, 2000, 06:44

My favourites are :
#1 London Exchange
#2 Edisons lab
There are other strog wonders late in the game, but when they become available the winner is already given. As I stay away from large maps, the labyrinth is pretty useless to me.

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Better killing for the future

Pin · April 15, 2000, 21:26

THE BEST WONDER EARLY ARE THE STONEHENGE, then if you play in a world with a lot of goods labyrinth.

then the next important wonders are edisons lab then london exchange

Hanibal · April 15, 2000, 23:16

I agree that the London Exchange is indeed a powerful wonder but isn't something like the Labyrinth which can come fairly early more deciding for a game? After all an early lead tends to get widened if played reasonably intelligently.

I generally play my games on gigantic maps with average amounts of trade goods so I can see that would do a lot to bias me in the wonders I prefer. In fact, a case could be made that which wonder is most powerful is almost entirely dependent on what kind of world you're playing with. Who wants East India Company if you're world has no oceans?

Sophanthro · April 16, 2000, 16:16

Early: Stonehenge, and Labyrinth

Middle: Edisons Lab, London Exchange

Late: Sensorium
I think London Exchange is the best.

Lamest: Dinosaur Park all the way.

lago · April 16, 2000, 17:02

Sophanthro, I wouldn't put the Dinosaur Park on the short list of really great ones, but it's not useless...IF you build it in the right city. Wait a turn after it's built, then check the "Cities" screen and sort on Gold. It's not unusual for the city where I build it to have as much Gold as the next three cities combined, especially if I'm playing with Nordicus Trade Goods installed.

Swissy · April 19, 2000, 22:32

I like Stonehedge for rapid population growth. Though the extra gold of the Labyrinth in hard to counter early. Your only chance of keeping up is Stonehedge as you can maintain steady population growth while using scientist to keep pace with the civ with the Labyrinth.

In the middle game London Exchange is hard to beat, besides the gold saved I find it the safest way to maintain a Democracy.

The late game wonders all have good benefits, I like the Nanite Difusser as it take a powerful weapon away from my enemies.

As for the lamest, in MP games it is Forbidden City. It prevents you from getting tech trade offers by canceling the other players embassies, and does not offer its main benefit of preventing attacks against you..

Az · April 23, 2000, 15:38

My favorite wonders are Edison's Lab and Internet . All the TEch you need . also there is the Gaya COntroller which is great and often the winner isnt always so defined . some SUPER SECRET operation like a massive landing near the capital or something . there are 2 terrible useless lame worthless miracles and those are the Dinosaur Park ,and Galileo's telescope . ( common . twice science in 1 city ? is it worth those turns of waiting ? I dont think so )

Gregurabi · April 27, 2000, 09:03

I'd say the London Exchange is the most powerful. Edison is good if you have low science output. (If you're researching tech every 3 turns, Edison gives you almost nothing. If you're in the middle of researching something that will take 40 turns, however, Edison can really help.)

The early wonders don't last long enough in my games (Deity, many AIs -> lots of tech quickly), so I disqualify all of them. But I play the original game, not the Apolyton pack, so my experience may be quite different from that of the typical reader of this forum.

Another great wonder is Contraception. The happiness boost is pretty powerful, because it often means you get 2-3 extra workers in each city (you can switch them away from entertainment). It's a middle-game wonder, and its effects last a rather long time.

Dalkeith · May 7, 2000, 10:40

my favourite is London Exchange, but mind your step!! As soon as you discover robotics it becomes obsolete and then you will have to pay suddenly all your maintenaince cost
again.
Once I waited working on robotics till I had now choise left and afer a while I switched from the modern age immediately to the diamond age and skipping the genetic age.
(real fun!!) I had discovered everything except the robotic tree. (that's why)

Flyercraft · May 15, 2000, 22:06

Once, in a game against my friend (our first game), I built London Exchange. Every thing was going perfect: MUCH more gold output, research 2 times faster!. Now I knew he was researching robotics but I also knew it was going to take him 30 turns! so started to research superconductor. Next turn, his Edison Lab finished it and superconductor, who was going to take 9 turns, was suddently a 20 turns research! To make things worse, I was losing gold each turn cause I built so much stuff!

Just to say: Even if you have London Exchange, don't be suprised that one day, you'll find yourself losing gold and citys starting rioting.

BTW, what happens when you run out of gold?
can't pay your workers so they start tearing your civ apart?

Paul · May 16, 2000, 00:38

When you run out of gold the computer will lower your wages which can lead to serious riots and revolts, especially in larger cities.

OJ · August 1, 2000, 01:40

tough question...the real answer is none. overall power of a wonder would hands down be LONDON EXCHANGE. but it isnt that simple, this game depends on map settings. here is a complete list of the most powerfull wonders in no special order. parantheses is what can happen if you have)

SPINX - small map! (garanteed strong army..will win in small map)

STONEHENGE - any map, but if you are in the hills and mountains it is a huge plus. (this wonder almost assure a win)

EAST INDIA TRADING COMPANY - island world obviously, more than 4 civs, and usually a bigger map. the gold is actually the bonus the movement of ships is what you build it for (doesnt assure victory but it is a very very powerfull helper if you have a large ships of the line war)

CONTRECEPTION - very good wonder..obviously happiness helps in all situations (by the time you build this in a diety game a big portion of your cities will be reaching sizes of 12 and higher)

GENOME PROJECT - dont let that shocked voice go off in your head. lets see a mountain with a advanced mind is 50 production right?..hmmm then that mountain produces now prduces 55...naybe you need to see the bigger picture...say military cost is 20% b/c of a big army..hmmm doesnt that kinda make your military cost 10%..oh yeah..not to forget what it does to your units...! this wonder is my secret and i told so dont forget.

LABYRINTH - i hate this wonder..but if you get it and their is medium to high goods you win the game...hands down!

NANOPEDIA AND SENSORIUM - a cruiser wonder..it doesnt help you win..just makes you win by more

HAGIA SOPHIA - really doesnt seem to do much but once you have it you have it forever..if you play your cards right you really wont have to build hospitals if you have a cathedral, temple, and aqueduct in your cities..this wonder was my pet peave but not really anymore..but it does serve a purpose im just not sure if it is worth it

RAMAYANA - just an honerable mention..it doesnt last long but with a temple you have the same as building contreception.

PHILOSPOHER STONE - very very helpful in a 4 person multiplayer game!

GLOBE SAT - hate it..but it keeps tabs on everybody - usally build that with GENOME PROJECT - a zillion artilerries and facists..change to facism tooooo! (dont need this to win..just to make a win easier.

DINOSAUR PARK - honerable mention just cause i dont want to crack the math..but it seems like the previous post was correct..gold in this cities is as much or more then the next 3 highest in your civ (seems to take the place of london exchange when you loose that)

WELL THATS THAT...no grammar check -

all other wonders are very conditionally needed or can burn

OJ · August 1, 2000, 02:03

tough question...the real answer is none. overall power of a wonder would hands down be LONDON EXCHANGE. but it isnt that simple, this game depends on map settings. here is a complete list of the most powerfull wonders in no special order. parantheses is what can happen if you have)

SPINX - small map! (garanteed strong army..will win in small map)

STONEHENGE - any map, but if you are in the hills and mountains it is a huge plus. (this wonder almost assure a win)

EAST INDIA TRADING COMPANY - island world obviously, more than 4 civs, and usually a bigger map. the gold is actually the bonus the movement of ships is what you build it for (doesnt assure victory but it is a very very powerfull helper if you have a large ships of the line war)

CONTRECEPTION - very good wonder..obviously happiness helps in all situations (by the time you build this in a diety game a big portion of your cities will be reaching sizes of 12 and higher)

GENOME PROJECT - dont let that shocked voice go off in your head. lets see a mountain with a advanced mind is 50 production right?..hmmm then that mountain produces now prduces 55...naybe you need to see the bigger picture...say military cost is 20% b/c of a big army..hmmm doesnt that kinda make your military cost 10%..oh yeah..not to forget what it does to your units...! this wonder is my secret and i told so dont forget.

LABYRINTH - i hate this wonder..but if you get it and their is medium to high goods you win the game...hands down!

NANOPEDIA AND SENSORIUM - a cruiser wonder..it doesnt help you win..just makes you win by more

HAGIA SOPHIA - really doesnt seem to do much but once you have it you have it forever..if you play your cards right you really wont have to build hospitals if you have a cathedral, temple, and aqueduct in your cities..this wonder was my pet peave but not really anymore..but it does serve a purpose im just not sure if it is worth it

RAMAYANA - just an honerable mention..it doesnt last long but with a temple you have the same as building contreception.

PHILOSPOHER STONE - very very helpful in a 4 person multiplayer game!

GLOBE SAT - hate it..but it keeps tabs on everybody - usally build that with GENOME PROJECT - a zillion artilerries and facists..change to facism tooooo! (dont need this to win..just to make a win easier.

DINOSAUR PARK - honerable mention just cause i dont want to crack the math..but it seems like the previous post was correct..gold in this cities is as much or more then the next 3 highest in your civ (seems to take the place of london exchange when you loose that)

WELL THATS THAT...no grammar check -

all other wonders are very conditionally needed or can burn

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AKA WIL, AKA MINOR-THREAT.
PLZ DONT CALL ME OJ

"LOPPING OFF PEOPLES MELLON IS WHAT I DO BEST" 1997 QUOTE FROM OJ TO THE SATAN PRESSES

MOBIUS · August 8, 2000, 04:53

Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about for London Exchange and Edison's Lab...

All LE does is save you money - granted it's a lot, but my strategy places gold at the bottom of the resource tree... It is FAR BETTER to be PRODUCING lots of gold by clever initial placement of your cities and building Marketplaces - plus you have to watch out when Robotics rears it's ugly head...

EL, almost a waste of time IMO... I have prefected my science figures by the time I get to EL and I hardly receive any advances through it - besides, two allies in a human game can EASILY outstrip advances with their combined science... Now Gallileo's Telescope on the other hand, THAT is a work of art!!!

Faves in early to mid game - no particular order...

STONEHENGE
GALLILEO'S TELESCOPE
CONTRACEPTION
LONDON EXCHANGE - hey, I just didn't say it was the Holy Grail...

Flyercraft · August 11, 2000, 00:12

Of course LE saves you a LOT of gold but don't forget that a big portion of your science comes from converted gold. In my first game, LE made my advances took 3 turns instead of 6 turns!!

DrDanger · August 14, 2000, 22:16

I'd say London Exchange and Yes Robotics kills it..but you can overcome that by having City Clock's & Television's..which brings up my Third Favorite Wonder Hollywood..Steals Gold from any Foreign Civ with Television's..2nd Fav is Edisons Lab..Free Science..Then 4th is Gally's Scope..200% Science..build that on a city Tile that will GROW......5th would be Genome..10%Production Increase and 10% Attack Bonus..and then I cant leave off that all important Globesat..Radar Coverage of whole world...As for Labrynth..welll.it doesnt last that long when you have some Good Science Hunters out there..Goes Obsolete soo soon..~sigh~

Andz83 · August 31, 2000, 11:57

interesting discussion you brought up here, fellows! go on!

uffe · September 5, 2000, 03:10

OK, maybe I'll post my thoughts also...

I play the game with the 1.2 patch and always a single player game (at the moment I'm usually playing at the Emperor level), so my thoughts apply only to that kind of games.

In the early game I always try to get the Stonehenge. My tactic is to try to build as many cities in the beginning as possible and Stonehenge really helps them grow faster (also keeping in mind that building so many settlers reduces the growth quite a lot at first). Because of this tactic I do not have workers on too many goods in the beginning, which kind of makes the Labyrinth useless. I don't really even consider building any other wonders in the early game.

In the middle game, Edison's Lab and London Exchange are the most important. For the higher difficulty levels, the Contraception is really good, so I also try to get that. I also like Galilei's Telescope, if I have a suitable city for it (I usually have) and East India Company, if I need to use sea units a lot.

In the late game I'm usually already winning and far ahead in tech, so I get pretty much every wonder I want. The ones that I always build are Gaia Controller (since otherwise my cities pollute too much) and the GlobeSat (btw, I think this wonder should reveal the map for everyone) just to make it easier to win. Other wonders are sometimes handy and I tend to build quite a lot of them in the late game, but I don't really need them for winning.

Solver · September 24, 2000, 10:37

I like what you call Londons Exchange. You see, I use German CTP version.
AI Pyramide is very nice benefit, but hard to control, for sure. Early on I love Labyrinth and Stonehenge. But I'd say Edison's Labor is my favorite one.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Gregurabi · September 25, 2000, 10:03

Don't build the AI Entity! It's going to backfire on you.

(Yeah, sure, it's great to be able to slam your production slider all the way up, and your wages/rations sliders all the way down... but unless you plan to win within, say, 10 turns don't do it! You'll lose 1/3 of your cities, and Murphy's Law says it will happen at the worst possible moment.)

Solver · September 26, 2000, 00:03

I build AI entity in situation like yesterday: I switch to Ecotopie goverment. I had towns with production good enough to produce EcoRanger (Park Ranger?) in 1 turn. I planned to launch them into the space and land. Do that with each city on the land, and get thew wiped out with Parks. But I have had about 120 cities at that moment. This caused unhappiness, so I was forced to create the AI entity. It took my cities, but they turned out to be barbarian. My 3 citites had Though Control improvement, so they didn't revolt and I could finish it off.
By the way, I always keep several Leviathans near the city where I got the AI Entity. I take all the forces, except 1 Plasmatica unit out. Then, if necessary I order 3 Leviathans to attack and the city is mine again.
But I'm not lucky. Mostly my AI entity revolts for the first time within 10 turns after I've built it. Yesterday it was even worse. It revolted in the next turn!

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Joseph · September 26, 2000, 00:51

You can build the AI Entity every game with out a problem. Waite until you start the aliens project. Then check with one of your best city, how many turns it would take to build the AI Entity. Start the AI Entity about three to five turn after the Aliens project. When you get the next to last turn before the Alien project is complete, go the city screen and the AI Entity Should be a few turn from comletion. Just rush buy it, and then on the last turn, you will have the AI Entity and the Alien Project together. Your total points for the game will be higher. If you do not use much money during the game, you have around 70,000 to 85,000 dollars in your acount at the end of the game. The AI should not cost more 10,000 to 15,000. If you go for a military victory, you could do the same thing. Again check your bet city for building the AI, and then when there is only two to three cities left, start the AI to build, and then conquer two of the cities, then have your armies ready to destroy the last city, then go to the city screen, rust buy the AI. Start the next turn. You will get the AI and you destroy the last city, game over.

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Solver · September 26, 2000, 13:08

Yes, but then you don't feel the real benefit from it. The sense is having AI and playing while it's here.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

psientist · April 19, 2002, 13:20

I've found Artifical Intelligence to be very useful. Research the technology that grants the AI wonder, and give it to your strongest computer-player enemy. Usually, the enemy will start building the wonder just to spite you. Start moving out some stacks, and when AI cities inevitably defect - they will vacate most of the defending units. An easy way to cripple the strongest computer player, if any remain, and take their cities - in solo play or multi. Warning - don't take the city that built the AI wonder!

Martin Gühmann · April 20, 2002, 12:47

Actual the AI Entity is the strongest wonder, the trick is to get it under controll, so my trick was save every turn and when it revolts than reload the last turn and than I use the sliders to make all my people happy, max out happiness and than I keep my cities. I think the problem is when the happiness level of your AI-Entity city as it would be without the AI-Entity gets to low than the revolt will happen so, a mind control emmiter should control the AI-Entity.

-Martin

J Bytheway · April 22, 2002, 14:19

I had a friend who always built the AI Entity in a frotier city then undefended it so some computer player conquers it. With the Egalitarian act you'll have a good chunk of the computer empire pretty soon, then remove the defense from the AI Entity city again, and repeat as necessary. Unfortunately, this backfired for him in one game because about 25 cities revolted from the computer player into his empire when he was already several cities over the max city limit, and so now he had huge happiness problems. Consequently, all but 3 of his 150-odd cities revolted to the bararians. I've never seen quite so many barbarian cities before.

Tainted Angel · April 27, 2002, 21:06

Senseorium and Gaia controller...

jpww · May 3, 2002, 02:02

Originally posted by J Bytheway
I had a friend who always built the AI Entity in a frotier city then undefended it so some computer player conquers it. With the Egalitarian act you'll have a good chunk of the computer empire pretty soon, then remove the defense from the AI Entity city again, and repeat as necessary. Unfortunately, this backfired for him in one game because about 25 cities revolted from the computer player into his empire when he was already several cities over the max city limit, and so now he had huge happiness problems. Consequently, all but 3 of his 150-odd cities revolted to the bararians. I've never seen quite so many barbarian cities before.

Very amusing!