Enhanced Awesome Aips

[Nordicus]

Hey, people...

Yes, while it may be a bit early for an update, I figured it couldn't hurt to get some ideas flowing again. So, although nothing is under construction at this time, any suggestions, comments, ideas, complaints, nonsensical ramblings of insanity, are all welcome.

Regards,

Tom.

[BigHead]

in response...

I'd like to see more amenable discourse during diplomacy or at least some flagging system in the dip communication window...

I recently was rebuffed by all the other dips, was at war with no one, and three turns later one of the civs offers me a gift (I didn't notice if its gov had changed).

currently you get like three (3) passes at making a deal, and it appears few opportunities ever arise for real cooperative ventures between civs, unless it's the dismantling of another civ...

It'd be great to partner with others in research, exchanging advances to gain an edge on others... yeah, bloodlust is FUN , but matching wits in a global economy can set the stage for some eventual thermonuclear spaceborne parties too, ya know.

It's demoralizing to see that some dips people are ALwaYs crying out for my blood...my thoughts, then, are: so I'll rip out your eyes to alleviate those pesky tears. Rapproachment is too often met with niggardly "rejetion". So shoot me if you got the space marines, otherwise let's talk.
[This message has been edited by BigHead (edited March 23, 2000).]

[MadWoodster]

On the CTP:Creation forum a new thread has been started called help with AIP and FLI files which may help you, this is still in its infantcy but may answer some of your questions, there should be a link below it if I've understood the UBB code correctly
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum11/H...tml?date=09:44

[Thornogson]

Nordicus,

As it stands, the Awesome Aips is a great improvement, but from my experience there are a couple of points worth mentioning:

I play at Emporer level, and I'm nearly always struggling to keep up for the majority of the game. This is not a complaint as it makes the game a challenge. However, what is odd is that I can always win by building the alien life project before anyone else. I wonder how much priority the AI's put on this part of the game. It works even if one opponent is way ahead of me for the whole game. I wonder if the AI's are so intent on war that they ignore this method of winning completely?

The other point is that I've never, ever seen an AI that's obeyed a 'stop trespassing' request! This isn't really a big deal, but is the opposite extreme of what the game was like without any mods at all...

John

[skorpion59]

Nord,

Like everybody else, I would like to see an improvement in Diplomacy although I'm not sure how much more you can do. If I remember right, during AAIP testing many options were tried. What about new personality types and hard-coding an Alliance between them?

Definitely the usage of Nukes could be improved.

Oh, and forget Alien End. If you stick with the game that far, you are guaranteed to win. The AI will never get it. If you make the AI concentrate on that, it will undo all the other improvements which have been made.


BH, you can increase the number of passes you get in the const.txt file. I have played with this and increased it to 6 to see what happens. The result is, you get turned down 6 times instead of 3.


------------------
Don,
CtPMaps at Apolyton

[lago]

Like Thornogson, I've noticed that the Awesome AIPS civs NEVER accept a 'stop trespassing' demand. I could usually get them to comply if I was strong enough in the standard game, but I literally haven't had a single case of compliance with the revised AIs.

Even when the disparity of force is extreme -- like I have a Battleship next to somebody's Trireme -- and all I really want them to do is get off the trade good they're sitting on and the Diplomacy screen says they love me (liar!), they STILL won't budge. I wind up starting a lot of wars that way, and also getting scolded for breaking a treaty. *snort*
[/rant]

[WesW]

Nordicus worked long and hard on this during the AAips testing, and I think he thought that he had "found the cure" for the syndrome. From what everyone says, it seems obvious that he didn't.
I don't remember the specifics now, but this problem sprung up when he corrected another problem with the AI; maybe it was the "timid AI syndrome", I can't remember.
The diplomacy files are a mess to work with, I know that much, and I am pretty sure that this refusal to stop tresspassing is the lesser of two evils. I would suggest that we need to develop tactics for dealing with these situations short of attack, whenever possible.

Use some of your obsolete units as border guards. Your friends shouldn't fortify themselves on your territory unless they are expanding into you, so try and get there first- again its border guards.
Ships should usually move on through your territory, unless they are secretly acheing for a fight, in which case not attacking them only gives them the first strike.

[lago]

Thanks Wes, I'm sorry I whined, and I know that Nordicus has worked hard on it. Oddly , since I reinstalled CtP with the Apolyton Pack and Nordicus Trade Goods 1.4, the weaker civs who trespass have been very quick to skedaddle when I ask them to. Maybe all I had to do was gripe about it.

[Nordicus]

BH:

quote: I'd like to see more amenable discourse during diplomacy or at least some flagging system in the dip communication window...

So would I. This was something I wanted to get into before, but the complexity of it was too much and there were more important issue to address.

I agree totally: a more intricate diplomacy model is needed--and just in case hell doesn't freeze over, I will definitely try to improve it a bit

Thornogson:

Hey. Actually, we hadn't looked into the latter part of the game much--there was no time. And more and more things continued popping up to delay the mod as it was. But I think it warrants a look or two later.

Don, well, there are a few things I've been considering. Have to check my notes, but I didn't have time to try everything I wanted. The interaction and cooperation between AI civs was not hardly touched--not much can cement relationships short of new AIPs and inputting them in the flis, which should (*in theory*) set an automatic Regard; you could have Neutral, Worship, Hate, whatever, between groups of AIPs/civs.
I don't know if this should part of an AAIPs update though--this along with really improving the barbarians would be a mod in itself.

quote: BH, you can increase the number of passes you get in the const.txt file. I have played with this and increased it to 6 to see what happens. The result is, you get turned down 6 times instead of 3.

LOL! Yes, I had a look at that too, did no testing, though. Looks like I don't have to!
I figured that this would just give the human player an advantage anyway: since each diplomacy encounter has a regard setting before and after, it could be easily manipulated to bring the AI back into favor, undoing all the fli work with making it harder to get what you want outta the AI.

But, on the other hand, there's a patience-gained/patience-lost thing too...so if that isn't adjusted, then the more you ask for, the more pissed off the AI can get. You could go from 'in love' to war in one turn!

Lago:
Yeah, Wes is right. It had originally worked perfectly--WAIS (Wandering AI Syndrome) treatment, but (a) the AI kept pulling back when it was preparing to fight (you or another AI), a pre-stage in war (hot_war_prep), and it interfered with that, so (b) because of this and further problems, 'exceptions' had to be included (for example, if the AI is fighting another AI and has good relations with you, moving its troops around to fight that war will result in a few incursions--otherwise, it gets pretty messed up and the war that it tries to fight is pathetic, all because of its location to you; there were nearly a dozen other examples), which means that the AI will trespass, there's no getting away from it, and (c) when more work was done with the AI, there was some indication that it undone much the of treatment. Also, getting the AI to start agreeing to Stop Trespass agreements was so problematic; when it finally began working, the AI developed TAIS (Timid AI Syndrome) and wouldn't go to war even if smoke was billowing out of its ears. So, a compromise was impossible; if the AI was going to fight, it would have to be bull-headed about a few treaties...namely, the Stop Trespassing one. (I think the Accept Peace Treaty was affected as well.)

I don't know what else can be done with that problem, but I will give it another look, maybe there's something I missed.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Keep em coming

[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited March 26, 2000).]

[BigHead]

Nordie

thanks for the obs, man... had not noticed the hostile pattern following negociations, despite it staring me in the face...never been too bothered by weak stop trespass, but those pesky sneak attacks right after a detente always blow me away (probably due to my own history of diplomacy as a nagger...)

btw, if I haven't said so before...I love what you've done for the game (to the game?), like you until the mods I was becoming disenchanted with CtP...merde!