Supply lines for units

[Sava]

With the discussion of unit support in the unit balance thread, I've come up with an idea that I think has merit.

Supply Lines:

They work like the trade system where a unit needs to have some kind of contact with the rest of the Civ. Units that don't will lose a HP per turn and then become unusable (not dead) until supply line is made available again. This would be great for seiges.

Maybe a unit could have like a ten turn leeway where it wouldn't need supplies, but after that, it would need to come in contact with a road, rail or city (or supply drop from an airport) to not incure the penalty.

C'mon people, give me opinions and more suggestions on this matter. I think it's worth discussing.

[Deathwalker]

What about when a unit's in a enemy teritory. Does it use there roads to connect back to it own teritory

[nato]

Well, I would love some sort of supply system for units. Supply and logistics are very very important. For instance, in WWII on the Russian front I bet more guys were lost from being encircled and cut off than direct combat. So supply would be great!

However using a system like the trade route thing might not be a good idea. I know that whenever there is a change to the trade route (like one city being cut from it) there is a noticable little pause in the game as it calculates. I'd be very worried about such calculations for 100s of units. It might be far too slow to do.

Also, as always, new ideas are up against the simplicity less-is-more barrier, but thats never stopped me from suggesting stuff.

[Asmodean]

Idea: Great

Probability: Low

I don't see Firaxis ever implementing a supply line system.

Firaxis: Please prove me wrong

That said and done, I love the idea, and would like to contribute (just give me time to think it over).

Asmodean

[wrylachlan]

This was talked about extensively in another thread about supplying mechanical units with oil (gasoline). The general consensus was that the pathfinding algorithm would be prohibitively costly to the CPU.

That said, I would like to see supply lines in. The way I would work it is make military units have culture power - meaning if a military unit is standing on a tile of someone else's culture, that tile temporarily becomes your culture for as long as the military unit stays there. Then to supply your troops in enemy territory you would have to have a line of military units along the road so that you could pass supplies up the road. And the enemy could pillage out his own roads as he retreats to slow you down.

If this is implemented, however, I want all Military units to cost significantly more and have higher stats so that you have fewer of them. Because if I have to micromanage supply lines, and move hundreds of units, I'll go totally insane.

[Stuie]

The other thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51595

[fire_toad]

I'm not sure if this is very practical when looking at how much slower the game will go. But, as an idea it is a very interesting one. The trade routes that existed in Civilization Call to Power could be modified as supply lines. A line would stretch from the unit to your city. Enemies, if the landed on it, could break the connection.
That would inteoduce a much more realistic spin on the game. Then the territory you are on, would be crucial, and flanking would be deadly. Because a weak unit could take a strong one out of action by taking out the supply line. This would also introduce vanguards, units for the sole purpose of guarding the supply line. It would also make individual strong units next to useless without backup. IF combined with a way to downsize the military, supply lines COULD be incorparated.

[Nostromo]

Well, the fact that a damaged unit cannot be repaired on foreign soil simulates, somewhat, supply lines. I know its not what you have in mind, but supply lines are in, sort of...

[Pythagoras]

Re: Supply lines for units

Originally posted by Sava
With the discussion of unit support in the unit balance thread, I've come up with an idea that I think has merit.

Supply Lines:

They work like the trade system where a unit needs to have some kind of contact with the rest of the Civ. Units that don't will lose a HP per turn and then become unusable (not dead) until supply line is made available again. This would be great for seiges.

Maybe a unit could have like a ten turn leeway where it wouldn't need supplies, but after that, it would need to come in contact with a road, rail or city (or supply drop from an airport) to not incure the penalty.

C'mon people, give me opinions and more suggestions on this matter. I think it's worth discussing.

+

I had this thought when I heard about trade networks, It would take such little effort to make this so. Maybe the editor could have an option to restrict units to x spaces away from the trade network, or maybe units could undergo attrition or something

[Jon Shafer]

Great idea - too complicated for a Civ game.
It has less of a chance of being implimented than Firaxis doing something incredibly stupid like putting Dinosaurs in the game or something.

*Someone whispers into Trip's ear*

...

Son of a ...

[Deathwalker]

This idea though quite good, would be very dificult to implement, and so will probabley not go in the game

[Pythagoras]

Originally posted by Deathwalker
This idea though quite good, would be very dificult to implement, and so will probabley not go in the game

.

It would not be difficult to implement. Youve already got the trade network in place and superb (nearly flawless) path finding.

To use the Firaxian method of persuasion (where one describes cool scenarios/implications for the idea)

I can just imagine capturing a port city and not being able to procede until the city is linked to my civ's trade network through building a harbor or something. Each city in a trade network could support some amount of units, so a size 2 city with out a link to your main trade network could not support a huge army around it. I can just imagine hurrying a harbor so that the army can advance, or surrounding a huge enemy army.

I've also found it true that numbers is way too much of a factor in civ's combat. If a smaller force could cut off units from their trade network then a huge force might have to concede to a smaller civ. Someone I know in special forces told me that 90% of war is logistics, I dont see that at all in civ3.

[wrylachlan]

Originally posted by Pythagoras
It would not be difficult to implement. Youve already got the trade network in place and superb (nearly flawless) path finding.

Um... not exactly. The trade network code is already a slowdown and if we then apply this same code to units which outnumber cities in many games up to 5 to 1 that would bring a CPU to its knees. And since the pathfinding algorithm becomes more CPU costly the greater the size of the map, the problem would only compound itself on large and huge maps.

Additionally there is more to coding a new function than making it possible. You also have to make sure that the AI knows how to use it well. My guess is that something as complicated as sneaking past an enemy to cut his supply lines would be pretty difficult to get across to the AI.

Please note that I'm not against this idea, I'd love to see some sort of supply lines code in... but I do think you are mistaken if you think coding this such that the AI could use it and it would run at an acceptable speed would'nt be difficult.

[rhenric557]

What if the supply line wasn't so much for the units but for the city. Say in times of war you hav to physically supply cities on enemy controlled continents. Say that airlift can get shot down like in CIV 2, and like wise the theoretical supply ships going to the harbors can get sunk. All based on there distance to enemy cities of course. Lets say that you have to Automate transports as supply ships for a city, then you'd have to have a navy to protect them, bringing in an actual need for a good sized navy. It's realistic but I doudt Firaxis will use such an Idea. There does need to be someway to make supply more difficult to maintain. being able to drop fifty plus units into an airport per turn makes it a bit to easy to get a foot hold on an enemy continent.

[Spiffor]

As a builder, I'm against the idea. It will bring more micromanagement in the military part of the game, and I feel there is enough already.

And there is a problem : what about ancient / medieval wars, when there aren't roads everywhere ? Until late XVIIIth century, logistics played a minor role, troops rather took food directly from the land they occupied.
It seems that such an idea will greatly add to the late game tedium (increased micromanagement, increased waiting time)