The Cost of Research Explained

[SlowThinker]

A couple of questions:
Is there a way how to find the power rating of an AI civ? (I have MPE and want to help to speed up the research of an AI that works on a tech that I want.)
Is there a way how to find out my power rating before any contact?

[solo]

When invoking the foreign advisor, your power rating along with your reputation is displayed. The left hand side of AI diplomacy screens give a clue to their power ratings. Count the number of weapons displayed there:

0 - pathetic
1 - weak
etc.

[SlowThinker]

Thank you.

Is there a way how to find out my power rating before any contact?

'before any contact' - I meant the beginning of the game when the F3 key answers 'we have not made any contact with another civ yet'.

[Scouse Gits]

ST - You can gain some indication but it may be considered a cheat.

Retire from the game and one of the screens which follow will show your position on the Powergraph.

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SG(2)

[SlowThinker]

I consider it a cheat.

[solo]

Yes, retiring would be a cheat, but sometimes the game will announce a comparison of some sort, i.e. richest, most powerful, etc., and these rankings are apt to be fairly close to the power ratings.

[RGBVideo]

Hmmh... somehow, It feels like I would've seen this thread before...

[SlowThinker]

Tuomerehu, I admit I don't undestand

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by solo
Yes, retiring would be a cheat, but sometimes the game will announce a comparison of some sort, i.e. richest, most powerful, etc., and these rankings are apt to be fairly close to the power ratings.

I think only the most powerful refers to the Power ranking...
Info: Statistic

[Elephant]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
A couple of questions:
Is there a way how to find the power rating of an AI civ? (I have MPE and want to help to speed up the research of an AI that works on a tech that I want.)
Is there a way how to find out my power rating before any contact?

ST - you can improve the AI's speed of research by tech-gifting ITS KeyCiv (not your own) if you can figure it out. If you have MarcoPolo you are set. Visit the AI and note their PowerRating from the left hand panel. Then use the KeyCiv list to find their KeyCiv and tech-bomb them. This should drive the number of beakers they need down. You could also try gifting them Writing and University, although this is not guaranteed. What usually works wonders is gifting them Republic. Also seems to calm them down a bit too, even the Mongols. If you are allied you can move a Settler or Engineer to their territory and improve the terrain around their cities, but be warned that the AI loves food and so may change a Silk back to Wheat! In the first Early Landing game I was quite frustrated by the Mongols irrigating the Gems into grassland...

I do not know of any power ratings before first contact beyond guessing from the Demographics screen and interpreting the occasional "Pliny says..." pop-ups. Early first contact is crucial. Black-click if possible, and send a city's first Warrior out to explore while keeping the 2nd home for martial law. The average city should be able to pump out two Warriors before increasing to size 2. If you can have 4 cities in Despo before unrest you can have Warriors exploring in 4 directions. If huts are on, whenever you get a mercenary unit check whether it is supported by one of your cities. If not, there is an AI city nearby. Disband the Warrior and look around...

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by solo
When invoking the foreign advisor, your power rating along with your reputation is displayed. The left hand side of AI diplomacy screens give a clue to their power ratings. Count the number of weapons displayed there:
0 - pathetic 1 - weak etc.

Originally posted by Elephant
Visit the AI and note their PowerRating from the left hand panel.

I can't find anything. Do you mean the area where pictures of cities are shown? Each civ has some strange number - 0, 0, 3, 3, 3, 4 ...

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Elephant,
up to 4 cities I use warriors only for exploring city placements. I think everything must go to speed up founding new cities.

[Bloody Monk]

up to 4 cities I use warriors only for exploring city placements. I think everything must go to speed up founding new cities.

Slow, founding new cities is important, yes indeed. When you begin to actually play full games, I think you will discover the value of early exploration, meet and greet, making alliances and getting maps. Both are necessary, especially in early landing games, though, I agree that MPE is very helpful.

Monk

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
I can't find anything. Do you mean the area where pictures of cities are shown? Each civ has some strange number - 0, 0, 3, 3, 3, 4 ...

I think he's referring to when you actually meet with the "emissary". There is a box on the left of the screen with 0 to 6 "spears". Zero Spears means you are talking to the pathetic civ, 6 spears means you are talking to the Supreme civ. Everything else falls inbetween accordingly.

[solo]

Right, when you contact an AI, their diplomacy screen appears, where the spears can be seen in the box on the left. Before choosing which AI to contact, the top of Foreign Advisor screen displays your own power rating and reputation.

[Elephant]

...But not on First Contact...

ST- There is also a checkbox under Game-Graphic Options that says Diplomacy Screen. Could this be off?

[SlowThinker]

I found spears! I always thought it is only a picture without any sense...

A question: it looks the AI owns the techs on the right side of the diplomacy screen. How are they chosen? Last discovered?

3 0 0 4 3 3 (from white to purple) are numbers that look like sizes of small cities that are drawn on the left side of the window you get right after pressing the F3 key. What is it?

[TimTheEnchanter]

I don't usually pay much attention to it, but I think the numbers by the little cities are the size of the capital cities. Ones with 0 have no capital

[SlowThinker]

I have MPE in my current game and so I am sure those numbers are not sizes of AI Capitals.

[Ljube]

The numbers are the sizes of capitals of your opponents at the time you discovered those capitals. Zero for undiscovered.

[Bloody Monk]

This deserves a place near the top. Still one of the best research threads.

Monk

[solo]

There is a link to it in Slow Thinker's Great Library, as well as to many other definitive threads authored by Samson.

[Sparrowhawk]

I am not sure I follow all of this, but what I want to know is this...
If at the end of my turn I have enough accumulated science and science on the turn to come to complete the research of a technology, is there anything that could make me not be able to complete this research?

(by the way that I understand this thread, the answer to my question is NO as the other civs completing techs should increase their own research cost and if it affects my research cost at all it should decrease (or more likely stay the same).

So ignoring possible lost trade due to changes in trade routes (AI having moved workers from Trade Arrows to Shields/Food) or from the creation of settlers or other ways in which my own trade could decrease, I don't see any way for my research cost to increase due to other civs actions.

Am I correct in this or am I missing something?

/me

[debeest]

It has never occurred to me before, but there is one possibility.

I think the recalculation of relative civ strengths (power)happens every four turns. If it happens during the period between turns, your key civ could change, which could change your tech requirements in either direction.

[rjmatsleepers]

Another possibility which I'm sure you realised, but didn't mention is that you increase your research costs by exchanging techs during the AI turns.

Can science in the turn be hit by a city going into disorder? I'm not sure on this one - you lose next turns production, but do you lose this turns research or next turns?

RJM at Sleeper's

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
Can science in the turn be hit by a city going into disorder? I'm not sure on this one - you lose next turns production, but do you lose this turns research or next turns?

You lose no science, only shields and gold.
The details are in GL - Managing cities: the order

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by SlowThinker

You lose no science, only shields and gold.
The details are in GL - Managing cities: the order

Interesting I'd always assumed that the difference between the beakers reported by the trade advisor and the science advisor was the effect of unrest. But since unrest doesn't lose you any science, the trade advisor is simply wrong.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Elephant]

I've had both situations Debeest and RJM mention during many One City Challenges: change of KeyCiv between turns (changing an over-full beaker box to an under-full one), and increase in research costs due to tech exchange at AI request between turns (learned that lesson just once...). When you build a Wonder, the first one to fill the production box completely gets it. When you research a tech, the "you got it" calculation is done at the instant of the first city being processed at the beginning of the next turn, so any changes to beaker quantities required are made BEFORE the city processing starts.

I'm not positive about the disorder thing. Seems like I have had problems with disorder hurting a research completion, but I do not have a specific case to look back to, and it could have been another issue or a miscalculation. I will keep this as a "look out for" situation and post if I see it happen again.

[Elephant]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers


Interesting I'd always assumed that the difference between the beakers reported by the trade advisor and the science advisor was the effect of unrest. But since unrest doesn't lose you any science, the trade advisor is simply wrong.

RJM at Sleeper's

My experience has been that at the very first check at the beginning of the new turn, the F5 Trade advisor reports the number of beakers produced the previous turn. Once I check some cities (like ones that changed in size) that number may change, even without reassigning workers. But the calculation on F5 is rounded up to the next higher turn, whereas the F6 beaker box shows you exactly how many beakers have been stockpiled so far (if they are few enough that they are individually distinguishable), along with the general number of turns from F5. My habit is therefore to check F5 as the very first thing I do at the beginning of the new turn and add the number produced to the previous total. I've been able to account for all the variations I've seen by doing that and noting my PowerRating each turn. I have seen my KeyCiv change two or three turns in a row, not once every four turns, playing One City Challenges.