NYT: U.S. Soldiers Told to Ignore Sexual Abuse of Boys by Afghan Allies

[NICE MOBIUS]

This wasn't common knowledge?

What wasn't common knowledge?

I happen to think that Afghanistan in general was totally wrong, I was just trying to figure out where DD stands.

I assumed DD was pro invading Iraq, but apparently not. So my line of questioning was clearly needed as I was operating on false assumptions.

[DinoDoc]

Seriously!? You were actually anti the invasion of Iraq?

Yes. In 03 (a few months before the invasion), I'd read a well reasoned argument against the invasion from a person who's opinion I respected and since I couldn't find any real holes in the argument I was forced to change my opinion of the invasion.

So you agreed with invading Afghanistan then?

Obviously.

[Kidlicious]

Nation building in Afghanistan is a fool's errand and not worth the time and treasure it takes.

Not if you build a police state and put all the baby rapists in prison

[Al B. Sure!]

I mean man love Thursdays and Afghan pederasty. I thought that was common knowledge.

[giblets]

I think Alby is saying that he thought it was common knowledge that the US government is supporting pederasts.

edit: x-post

[Al B. Sure!]

Not supporting but turning a blind eye to it. I never went to Afghanistan but it's such a pervasive thing I've heard about it from dozens of Marines.

I thought this was old news.

In fact, it is. SF Gate article from 2010:

http://m.sfgate.com/opinion/brinkley/article/Afghanistan-s-dirty-little-secret-3176762.php

For centuries, Afghan men have taken boys, roughly 9 to 15 years old, as lovers. Some research suggests that half the Pashtun tribal members in Kandahar and other southern towns are bacha baz, the term for an older man with a boy lover. Literally it means "boy player." The men like to boast about it.

I've heard the boys referred to as Chai Boys.

PBS Frontline also covered it 5 years ago:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/

As did something called the American Conservative which discussed American military and a documentary film on the subject:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/2013/07/10/routine-child-rape-by-afghan-police/

[giblets]

And the Vatican "turned a blind eye" to child rape too

[Al B. Sure!]

What was supposed to be done? To play devils advocate, different cultures have different customs. We can't just go around Americanizing everyone.

[giblets]

Then what's the point in fighting the Taliban? Might as well let them have Afghanistan and only worry about killing Al Qaeda's leaders.

[N35t0r]

Then why the hell are you there?

[Edit:] x-post, to alby.

[Al B. Sure!]

To have a pro-American government that's opposed to terrorism? Women having access to education? Peace and security for Afghans?

[Elok]

This is so very wrong. After all Afghanistan still is a muslim country ... I am sure that anyone having intercourse with the same gender (no matter whether adult or minor) is getting in deep trouble and might get stoned according to the Shariah. (while the Shariah IIRC isn´t part of Afghanistans legislature, it surely dsproves the claim that raping young boys is part of Afghanistans culture )

Not necessarily. America is a majority Christian country--with gay marriage, a high divorce rate, legal abortion, gambling, and sundry other things that have no place in traditional Christian practice. In Afghanistan itself, well, I don't think Islam is big on narcotics, but that doesn't keep the folks there from growing loads of opium. Countries can have more than one facet or aspect to their culture, and these aspects can and do conflict.

In both Umayyad Spain and Abbasid Iraq, pederasty was quite common, even in the highest members of the caliph's court. The caliph himself, in some cases. I read that something like five percent of all surviving Abbasid poetry is about sexy little boys. The little people often complained, but didn't do anything about it unless the rulers were also corrupt in a way that touched said little people directly. E.g., giving lots of high offices to non-Muslims tended to make them cranky. But the caliph could hump ten thousand little slave boys and it would be no skin off their backs.

Pederasty may be an Afghan tradition from before the conquest, or a vice that some Umayyad conquerors brought with them, or something that developed independently since then. Who knows? It was nearly ubiquitous in the ancient Mediterranean region.

[Garth Vader]

To have a pro-American government that's opposed to terrorism? Women having access to education? Peace and security for Afghans?

So keeping women from education is culturally wrong, but raping boys is OK?

[NICE MOBIUS]

Yes. In 03 (a few months before the invasion), I'd read a well reasoned argument against the invasion from a person who's opinion I respected and since I couldn't find any real holes in the argument I was forced to change my opinion of the invasion.

I thank you

Obviously.

Oh right, so go in and smash the Taliban up a bit and then simply leave?

That's even worse and more pointless than what has actually happened, though far less costly, surely?

What would you have done instead?

[Proteus_MST]

Not necessarily. America is a majority Christian country--with gay marriage, a high divorce rate, legal abortion, gambling, and sundry other things that have no place in traditional Christian practice. In Afghanistan itself, well, I don't think Islam is big on narcotics, but that doesn't keep the folks there from growing loads of opium. Countries can have more than one facet or aspect to their culture, and these aspects can and do conflict.

In both Umayyad Spain and Abbasid Iraq, pederasty was quite common, even in the highest members of the caliph's court. The caliph himself, in some cases. I read that something like five percent of all surviving Abbasid poetry is about sexy little boys. The little people often complained, but didn't do anything about it unless the rulers were also corrupt in a way that touched said little people directly. E.g., giving lots of high offices to non-Muslims tended to make them cranky. But the caliph could hump ten thousand little slave boys and it would be no skin off their backs.

Pederasty may be an Afghan tradition from before the conquest, or a vice that some Umayyad conquerors brought with them, or something that developed independently since then. Who knows? It was nearly ubiquitous in the ancient Mediterranean region.

Fascinating, never would have thought this
(despite the fact that muslim countries in medieval times seem to have been generally more tolerant than most muslim countries today are)