Gerald R. Ford-class aircraft carrier, what a target

[rah]

Unless it's a nuke.

[kentonio]

Unless it's a nuke.

I'm actually really curious now to know how close you'd have to be with a nuclear strike. Does anyone know? Obviously it'll depend on payload size and all that, but ballpark?

[PLATO]

I'm actually really curious now to know how close you'd have to be with a nuclear strike. Does anyone know? Obviously it'll depend on payload size and all that, but ballpark?

During the Bikini tests some of the battleships remained afloat after near direct hits. I think the problem is more radiation then actual physical damage...although that can be substantial (or Total for that matter).

[N35t0r]

I think that airburst vs. waterburst would affect as well....

[regexcellent]

The radiation would not affect the ship's operations meaningfully. The hull is very effective shielding, just like with armored vehicles. You have to really fry people for radiation to kill them quickly.

Re: towed arrays, the new LCSes are getting them.

[Dinner]

$13 billion? Pish! A single plane costs more.

[regexcellent]

You are mixing up billions and millions...an F-35 is something like $100 million; a B-2 is $2 billion.

[N35t0r]

'billions', that is, which is thousand millions.

[PLATO]

Quite a few ships were involved in the Bikini tests. Looks like a lot of them stayed afloat. A couple even returned to active service.

https://www.bikiniatoll.com/Ships.html

CARRIERS

Independence (CVL-22): Towed to Pearl Harbor and then to Hunters Point (San Francisco) in October 1946. Sunk as target in special tests of new aerial and undersea weapons off San Francisco on January 27, 1951, in 1,000 fathoms.

Saratoga (CV-3): Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on July 25, 1946.

BATTLESHIPS

Arkansas (BB-33): Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on July 2S, 1946.

Nagato (Japanese): Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on night of July 29/30, 1946.

Nevada (BB-36): Towed to Kwajalein by USS Preserver (ARS-8), decommissioned on August 29, 1946, and then towed to Pearl Harbor. Sunk as target on July 31, 1948, 65 miles southwest of Pearl Harbor following four days of gunfire, bomb, rocket, and torpedo hits from Task Force 12. As of 1993, the USS Preserver was still on active duty as a salvage ship, assigned to the Naval Reserve Training Facility at Little Creek outside Norfolk.

New York (BBI-34): Towed to Kwajalein by USS Achomawi (AFT-148), decommissioned on August 29, 1946, and then towed to Pearl Harbor. Sunk as target on July 8, 1948, 40 miles southwest of Pearl Harbor after an eight-hour pounding by ships and planes using bombs and gunfire in full-scale battle maneuvers with new torpedoes.

Pennsylvania (BB-38): Scuttled off Kwajalein on February 10, 1948.

CRUISERS

Pensacola (CA-23): Towed to Kwajalein and then to Bremerton, Washington, for radiological tests. Sunk as target off Washington coast on November 10, 1948, in 1,400 fathoms.

Prinz Eugen (German): Towed to Kwajalein and attempted to beach at Enubuj Island, but she capsized and sank in shallow water on December 22, 1946 (New York Times article indicates date was December 16).

Sakawa (Japanese): Sunk at Bikini by Able shot on July 2, 1946.

Salt Lake City (CA-25): Towed to Bremerton via Pearl Harbor for radiological tests. Sunk by torpedoes in 2,000 fathoms off San Diego on May 25, 1948, after a four-hour bombardment from planes and ships.

DESTROYERS

Anderson (DD-41 1): Sunk at Bikini by Able shot on July 1, 1946.

Conyngham (DD-371): Steamed from Kwajalein to Pearl Harbor in September 1946, and then to San Francisco area, arriving on October 22, 1946. Scuttled in July 1948 off California coast.

Hughes (DD-410): Beached at Eneu Island following Baker shot on July 26, 1946, and later towed to San Francisco for radiological tests. Sunk as target off Washington coast by air attack on October 16, 1948.

Lamson (DD-367): Sunk at Bikini by Able shot on July 1, 1946.

Mayrant (DD-402): Kept at Kwajalein for radiological tests until sunk there by guns and torpedoes on April 4, 1948.

Mugford (DD-389): Scuttled off Kwajalein on March 22,1948.

Mustin (DD-413): Sunk by gunfire off Kwajalein on April 18, 1948.

Ralph Talbot (DD-390): Scuttled off Kwajalein on March 8, 1948.

Rhind (DD-404): Scuttled off Kwajalein on March 22, 1948.

Stack (DD-406): Sunk by gunfire from four destroyers off Kwajalein on April 24, 1948.

Trippe (DD-403): Sunk as target off Kwa'alein on February 3, 1948.

Wainwright (DD-419): Sunk as target off Kwajalein on July S, 1948, by
Destroyer Division 172.

Wilson (DD-408): Scuttled off Kwa'alein on March 8, 1948.

SUBMARINES

Apogon (SS-308): Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on July 25, 1946.

Dentuda (SS-335): Steamed from Kwajalein to Pearl Harbor in September 1946, and the next month to San Francisco for radiological study. Decommissioned at Mare Island on December 11, 1946, and stationed in the 12th Naval District for training of naval reservists. Sold for scrap on January 20, 1969.

Parche (SS-384): Steamed to Pearl Harbor and then reported to Mare Islands Group 19th Fleet on October 14, 1946. Towed to the naval reserve docks in Oakland in February 1948 and accepted as a naval reserve training ship. Sold for scrap in July 1970.

Pilotfish (SS-386): Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on July 25, 1946. Salvaged for examination and resunk as a target on October 16, 1948. Searaven (SS-196): Raised from submerged position on July 29, 1946, after Baker shot. Steamed to Pearl Harbor from Kwajalein and then to San Francisco for radiological study, arriving there on October 22, 1946. Sunk as target off California coast on September 11, 1948.

Skate (SS-305): Towed to Kwajalein by ATR-40, then to Pearl Harbor by USS Fulton (AS-11), and then to San Francisco by USS

Clamp (ARS-33). Decommissioned on December 11, 1946, and scuttled off California coast in 515 fathoms on October 4, 1948.

Skipjack (SS-184): Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on July 25, 1946. Salvaged on September 2, towed to Pearl Harbor, and then to San Francisco. Sunk by aircraft rocket attack on August 11, 1948, off California coast in 700 fathoms.

Tuna (SS-203): Surfaced after Baker shot on July 27, 1946. Steamed to Kwa'alein, Pearl Harbor, and then San Francisco. Scuttled off the West Coast on September 24, 1948, in 1,160 fathoms.

ATTACK TRANSPORTS

Banner (APA-60): Scuttled off Kwajalein on February 16, 1948.

Barrow (APA-61): Scuttled off Kwajalein on May 11, 1948.

Bladen (APA-63): Steamed to East Coast, decommissioned at Norfolk on December 26, 1946, and transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission on August 3, 1953.

Bracken (APA-64): Scuttled off Kwajalein on March 10, 1948.

Briscoe (APA-65): Scuttled somewhere in the Marshall Islands on May 6, 1948.

Brule (APA-66): Scuttled off Kwajalein on May 11, 1948.

Butte (APA-68): Scuttled off Kwajalein on May 12, 1948.

Carlisle (APA-69): Sunk at Bikini by Able shot on July 1, 1946.

Carteret (APA-70): Sunk in the Marshall Islands by gunfire of the USS
Toledo (CA-133) on April 19, 1948.

Catron (APA-71): Sunk in the Marshall Islands by gunfire of the USS
Atlanta (CL-104) on May 6, 1948.

Cortland (APA-75): Granted radiological clearance in December 1946,
decommissioned at Norfolk on December 30, 1946, and transferred to the U.S. Maritime Commission on March 31, 1948. Later sold for scrap.

Crittenden (APA-77): Towed to San Francisco in January 1947. Towed to sea by USS Tekesta (ATF-93) and sunk off California coast by explosive tests on October 5, 1948, in 800 fathoms.

Dawson (APA-79): Scuttled off Kwajalein on April 19, 1948, in 2,290 fathoms.

Fallon (APA-81): Beached on Eneu Island on July 27, 1946, after Baker shot and then towed to Kwajalein. Scuttled off Kwajalein on -March 10, 1948.

Fillmore (APA-83): Steamed to East Coast, decommissioned at Norfolk on January 24, 1947, and transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission on April 1, 1948.

Gasconade (APA-85): Towed to San Francisco and sunk as target by torpedoes off southern California coast on July 21, 1948, in 1,300 fathoms.

Geneva (APA-86): Steamed to East Coast, decommissioned at Norfolk on January 1, 1947, and received by the U.S. Maritime Commission at James River Reserve Fleet, Lee Hall, Virginia, on April 2, 1948. Transferred to Wilmington (North Carolina) Reserve Fleet in July 1955, and sold for scrap on November 2, 1966.

Gilliam (APA-57): Sunk at Bikini by Able shot on July 1, 1946.

Niagara (APA-87): Steamed to East Coast, arriving at Norfolk on November 23, 1946. After being used to test effects of special conventional explosives in the Chesapeake Bay in 1947-48, was sold for scrap on February 5, 1950, to Northern Metals Company of Philadelphia.

LSTs (LANDING SHIPS, TANK)

LST-S2: Sunk off Kwajalein in April 1948 by gunfire of USS Oakland (CL-95) in 2,280 fathoms.
LST-12S: Deliberately beached before Baker shot, then sunk by gunfire
of USS Fall River (CA- 1 3 1) off Bikini on August 14, 1946.
LST-133: Sunk off Kwajalein on May 11, 1948.
LST-220: Sunk off Kwajalein on May 12, 1948.
LST-545: Sunk off Kwajalein on May 12, 1948.
LST-661: Sunk off Kwajalein on July 25, 1948.

LSMs (LANDING SHIPS, MEDIUM)

LSM-60: Destroyed at Bikini as bomb carrier for Baker shot on July 25, 1946.

LCTs (LANDING CRAFT, TANK)

LCT-412: Scuttled off Kwajalein in September 1947.
LCT-414: Sunk by demolition charges at Bikini shortly after Baker shot.
LCT-705: Scuttled off Kwa'alein in September 1947.
LCT-746: Scuttled off Kwajalein in March 1947.
LCT-812: Sunk by demolition charges at Bikini shortly after Baker shot.
LCT-816: Scuttled off Kwajalein in June 1947.
LCT-818: Scuttled off Kwajalein in September 1947.
LCT-874: Scuttled off Kwajalein in September 1947.
LCT-1013: Scuttled off Kwajalein in September 1947.
LCT-1078: Scuttled off Kwajalein in September 1947.
LCT-1112: Scuttled off Kwajalein in September 1947.
LCT-1113: Scuttled off Kwajalein in June 1947.
L CT-1114: Capsized by Baker shot and sunk by demolition charges at
Bikini on July 30, 1946.
LCT-1175: Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on July 2S, 1946.
LCT-1187. Sunk by demolition charges at Bikini shortly after Baker shot.
LCT-1237: Sunk by demolition charges at Bikini shortly after Baker shot.

AUXILIARIES

ARDC-13: Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on August 6, 1946.
YO-1 60: Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on July 25, 1946.
YOG-83: Beached at Kwajalein on September 23, 1946, and scuttled off
Kwajalein on September 16, 1948.

LCIs (LANDING CRAFT, INFANTRY)

LCI-327: Stranded at Bascombe (Mek) Island, Kwajalein, and destroyed there on October 30, 1947.
LCI-329: Scuttled off Kwajalein on March 16, 1948.
LCI-332: Scuttled off Kwajalein in September 1947.
LCI-549: Used at Kwajalein as patrol vessel until June 1948. Granted final radiological clearance in August 1948 and towed to Port Chicago, California, in January 1949. Sold to the Learner Company in Alameda, California, on August 2, 1949, and delivered on August 19, 1949.
LCI-618: Sold to the Learner Company in Alameda, California, on
August 2, 1949, and delivered on August 19, 1949.
LCI-620: Deliberately beached before Baker shot. Towed to sea and
sunk off entrance to Bikini lagoon on August 10, 1946.

LCMs (LANDING CRAFT, MECHANIZED)

LCM-1: Fate unknown.
LCM-2: Fate unknown.
LCM-3: Fate unknown.
LCM-4: Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on July 25, 1946.
LCM-S: Fate unknown.
LCM-6: Sold for scrap in Guam on unknown date.

LCVPs (LANDING CRAFT VEHICLES, PERSONNEL)

LCVP-7: Fate unknown.
LCVP-8: Fate unknown.
LCVP-9: Fate unknown.
LCVP-1 0: Sunk at Bikini by Baker shot on July 25, 1946. LCVP-1 1: Fate unknown.
LCVP-12: Fate unknown.

SOURCES:
Capt. A. G. Nelson, memorandum entitled "Crossroads Target Ships,"
May 25, 1978, DOE/CIC 48703;

Operational Report on Atomic Bomb Tests Able and Baker; Mooney, ed.,

Dictionary of American Naval Figbting Sbips; Delgado et al.,

The Arcbeology of the Atomic Bomb, 173-76; Berkhouse et al.,

Operation Crossroads, 173-77; Shurcliff, Tecbnical Report, pp. 3.61-62; New York Times.

Operation Crossroads, The Atomic Tests at Bikini Atoll, pp. 317-322; Weisgall,

[Sep Blatter]

If I had an aircraft carrier working my with death star I would be invincible.

[BlackCat]

The location to within x square miles maybe, but that's quite different to being able to hit one with a ballistic missile.

Yeah, with x < 5 as the most likely. My comment was directed at Reg's fantasies about US carrier fleets could go around unnoticed a la the japanese fleet when attacking Pearl Harbor - that is impossible.

Hitting them with something is a different matter but absolutely possible (brits should know about that).

[regexcellent]

Yeah, with x < 5 as the most likely. My comment was directed at Reg's fantasies about US carrier fleets could go around unnoticed a la the japanese fleet when attacking Pearl Harbor - that is impossible.

Hitting them with something is a different matter but absolutely possible (brits should know about that).

No, that's not good enough, and no, you're wrong about people knowing where our carriers are except to very general areas. You have to know EXACTLY where the ship is to hit it. Missiles don't have good radars on them. They won't fit. You have to get close for terminal guidance to work.

The Argentines used aircraft to locate British ships before firing Exocets at them. They lost a number of planes doing reconnaissance.

[N35t0r]

Due to lack of fuel.

[Alexander's Horse]

"The danger to the carrier remains the submarine. "

if this is true I would say the US carrier is safer than not. the US has some pretty advance anti submarine capabilities.

Maybe but the subs got the carriers in some recent Pac Rim exercises, always red faces on the bridge when the hostile sub surfaces next to the carrier undetected.

[pchang]

Those are subs vs. surface excercises. an actual engagement would be subs vs. surface + subs + aircraft