meanwhile, in Chicago

[N35t0r]

I thik it's more of an issue of when they use them, (and, for things like armoured cars and the like, how many they have) rather than how many they have.

[C0ckney]

but it's both. the militarisation of the police, in terms of equipment, necessarily leads to the same in terms of training and attitude. it creates, or exacerbates, a distance between the police and the civilian population. of course one might argue that this allows the population to see the police for what they really are: a force designed to protect the state, private property, and citizens (in that order), but that's another debate.

[rah]

In some cities only certain units are trained with advanced weapons, not the entire force.

[SlowwHand]

Certain cities don't disarm their citizens totally.
Don't get on any boxcars.

[-Jrabbit]

I don't think anyone here is saying the police should be unprepared or ill-equipped.

BTW, mayoral candidate Chuy Garcia is running on a "more cops" platform - declaring that he will put 1,000 more uniforms on the street - despite the fact that Chicago is second only to NYC in the number of police officers, and #1 among large cities in officers per 100k residents.

Regarding the OP article, my actual primary concern here is the CPD detaining people without charges, documentation, or basic civil rights - while apparently having a facility dedicated to doing exactly that.

[rah]

Rahm promised the extra police when he originally ran, but then saw what it would cost when he got elected and decided no.

And I fully expect the CPD to be more discreet on these types of matters. Where's the professionalism here.

[kentonio]

In some cities only certain units are trained with advanced weapons, not the entire force.

I have no issue at all with police forces having small specialist response teams. If someone goes crazy with a machine gun, you don't want your only fast response to be a group of cops standing around holding their dicks. It's more the pervasive militarization that C0ckney was speaking of. Especially when you have small towns getting given expensive military hardware.

[kentonio]

Oh and re gangs btw, the US seems to have this thing whereby gangs are used as the fallback reason for a lot of gun related arguments. Can someone just tell me, why exactly do you guys have such a big gang problem? Obviously every country has some form of gangs, but America seems pretty unique in the west for the scale and violence. What gives?

[-Jrabbit]

The "gang problem" is more political rhetoric than anything else. And it's definitely code for "black guys" and "Latinos." It's an easy distraction from root causes like institutionalized segregation, terrible schools, and lack of employment opportunities.

Sure, there are groups of like-minded kids in trouble and unemployed adults making their living selling drugs, but it's really no more pervasive than classic street mafia stuff from many decades back. I lived in Chicago for years and, frankly, the biggest "influence" of gangs, even in some pretty dodgy neighborhoods, was graffiti tagging.

The severe violence is pretty much limited to economically depressed pockets on the south and west sides - which is very convenient for the media and politicians.

[MRT144]

This is a long-form story, so for the TLDR crowd: Chicago police seem to running their own "black ops" site, where detainees are denied access to lawyers, some are shackled, some beaten, not booked for many hours, and seemingly are not even documented. It also seems to be the spot where the city stores its hundreds of war surplus military vehicles.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site

I don't want to be glib about this, but apparently the militarization of the police has gotten way more serious than I believed. If true, this is some pretty scary stuff. The city got some splainin' to do...

Haha, eat a dick cop apologists.

[MRT144]

Imagining the glee with which a bunch of power hungry cops probably discussed creating such a site and really getting off on the whole "no lawyers, no rules" ****...

I wish that LEOs didn't constantly validate just how awful they are.

[rah]

Over 2500 hundred people shot in Chicago last year.
I'm sure most of them were gang related and not graffiti tagging incidents.

Some neighborhoods do require police with automatic weapons.

[MRT144]

Over 2500 hundred people shot in Chicago last year.
I'm sure most of them were gang related and not graffiti tagging incidents.

Some neighborhoods do require police with automatic weapons.

The gang members by and large aren't engaging police in wanton gun battles.

[Sava]

The gang members by and large aren't engaging police in wanton gun battles.

But it's certainly a compelling straw man, right?

[rah]

Whether they're actively engaging the police with them is immaterial to me.
They have them. That's not in question.
The police deserve to be equally armed in my opinion.
I'm not supporting large pitched battles or anything of the sort, but if the gangs have that kind of fire power, it's silly for the police not to have it.