My rulese.txt also has riot factor 14.
PC riot factor?
Could you look in your rules.txt and tell me what the riot factor is?
Mine is set to 14.Is that right?
Last night I had 5 cities close together when I saw my 1st first red citizen in Monarchy.Something didn't seem right.
My rulese.txt also has riot factor 14.
hmmm. thats odd.I wonder if there are other facyors involved.Thnx
What were the population levels, and at what difficulty were you playing?
Well.I only had 5 cities down so pop level was low.Deity.
Smash - very strange. Did you have any roads/rivers connecting cities? Which city had the red citizen?
Let's see if this makes sense
Deity - 4
Emperor - 6
King - 8
Prince - 10
Warlord - 12
Cheiftain - 14
So my educated guess is that 14 is the number of cities you can have in Cheiftain before you start getting unhappy citizens (ie a riot).
I remember switching the riot factor to 255 a while back and had an easy time at ICS. No extra unhappies no matter how many cities I built.
The government type also contributes to how many cities you can have before riots.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited July 11, 2000).]
Tom - it's a bit more complicated than that. I'll take the liberty of pasting in a table from another thread:
quote:
Here's an attempt at a table:
_____________Deity___Emperor___King____Prince____W arlord____Chieftan
Despotism/_____4________6_______8_______10________12_______1 4
Anarchy
Monarchy______6________9_______12______15________1 8_______21
Republic_______8________12______16______20________ 24_______28
Democracy_____10_______15______20______25________3 0_______35
Communism/____255______255_____255_____255_______255______25 5
Fundamentalism
Each time you exceed a multiple of the magic number, your happiness calculation goes up one difficulty level in some cities. For Deity+1, the first citizen is unhappy; for Deity+2, you will have a very unhappy citizen.
These numbers are for a small map; I think there may be a bonus for larger maps.
OK, so Smash's point is that he should have been able to build 7 cities before getting that first unhappy, not 5.
Cities were on a pretty nice river system.No roads yet.
First extra redhead appeared in city #5.Size 1 unhappy.I should have been good for at least 2 more cities.Cities were fairly close together,very low corruption at that point.
I don't beleive in that number system.My first extra redhat would appear consistantly then and that is not what happens to me.On small maps it varies for me from 5(apparently) to 8 or so.
In case there is any doubt Monarchy was established.I had been "holding" at 4 until despo was history.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited July 11, 2000).]
Smash - my experience definitely bears out the numbers in the Deity column. I've never seen a first unhappy before my 5th city in despotism or 7th in monarchy. Sometimes I've been able to squeeze in an extra city, but the riot factor has never kicked in early. Just another one of those puzzling phenomena...
While in general, that table is a good guide, I have also experienced variations which I notice were due to overall population growth. Where due to pop growth in one city in a turn, another city previously ok (and did not grow) was now a problem. (when no new cities were added that turn)
There was another thread around here that went into more detail, but I'm too lazy to look for it right now.
RAH
Interesting. Smash, what size were your cities? I have probably never had a city bigger than size 2 at this stage of the game, so maybe that is the difference.
I think that's right. There seems to be some sort of individual city size (or general population number) factored into the equation. I've been within the "magic number" of cities and had previously content citizens suddenly become unhappy for no apparent reason. Well, other than growth within other cities, none of which, in itself, should cause unhappiness. And no amount of martial law solves the unhappiness.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
Don't forget there is also a distance from the capital factor. I think the thread that Rah mentioned is the one where we were discussing the problems involved in getting an advanced tribe in the wrong location at the wrong time. Several of us, myself included, had gotten cities from huts that caused a stable civ to go into mass riots without having the hut city also riot. Most often this had happened if for example: you had 15 well spaced cities total before poping the hut. With some of the cities in the stable civ 80 -> 100 tiles from your capital and on more than one land mass or several islands. Lets say that for whatever reason your unpoped hut was only 20 tiles from the capital and on the same land mass. After poping you most likely got a population 4 city, or possibly only size 3, which would be close enough not to riot, but would cause 3 or 4 cities on the fringes of your empire to riot or just fall out of WLxD status, which can actully end up being worse.
The numbers above are just examples and not actual measures. In that particular discussion none of us were using exact figures and meaurements we were just comparing situations that we had experienced.
Ken
Test result. On the Mac version, under Despotism, got to 8 cities - 2 size 2, 6 size 1 - before the 9th city produced an unhappy first citizen. Went into Monarchy, no unhappiness problems.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]
Finbar - what size map did you use for your test? And what difficulty level?
Large, Deity. I'll run some more tests on different size maps.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
Test #2. Small map, Deity. (On a Mac version of the game) None of the cities linked by roads, as they weren't in the first test on the large map. All cities within 6 or 7 squares of each other.
Under Despotism, the 6th city built produced an unhappy citizen. At that point, I had 1 city size 2, and 4 size 1. It was the last city built - obviously a size 1 - that went into revolt. I corrected the unhappiness. Next turn, another size 1 city and the size 2 city went into revolt. The size 2 city had a defender in it, so it wasn't a martial law problem.
Under Monarchy, the 8th city built produced an unhappy citizen, and a size 2 city (with a defender in it) went into revolt.
Which only really tells us, I suppose, that map sizes could have an impact on the equation.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]
Test #3. Medium map, Deity. Everything else the same as before.
Under Despotism, the 6th city produced an unhappy citizen.
Under Monarchy, the 8th city built produced a content citizen, but a size 2 city (with a defender in it) went into revolt.
Make of all of this what you will.
While I'm at it, I might as well do another large map test to see what happens under Monarchy.
Um .... maybe in the morning.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]
finbar - could you check how many cities you can build in Monarchy before having happy problems? I know, it's a lot easier to ask someone else to do the work than to do it.
Which size map?
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
The only Monarchy test I hadn't done was on the large map. Just did it. My 11th city produced a content citizen, but another size 1 city went into revolt, as did another size 2 city with a defender in it. So 10 was the limit.
My findings, based on an entirely unscientific series of tests:
Small Map - 7 cities in Monarchy before unhappiness
Medium Map - the same
Large Map - 10 cities in Monarchy before unhappiness
So large maps certainly seem to give you leeway in city numbers.
This, remember, is the Mac version of the game. I have the PC version, which I bought before the Mac version was ported, and I played on the Mac via SoftWindows. I'll open up the PC version and give it a try.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]
I think I should get a life.
Did some tests with the PC version, playing it on my Mac via SoftWindows. And I'd forgotten how different the interfaces are. The OK and Cancel buttons are reversed on the PC version, which meant I was automatically hitting the wrong button from time to time.And you also get a little bell/chime sound when you build a city in the PC version. How endearing.
Anyway ...
1. Small Map - under Monarchy, the 7th city produced an unhappy chappie.
2. Medium Map - this was interesting. My first map gave me a small island. Bastards.
Second attempt. Under Monarchy, my 7th city produced an unhappy chappie.
3. Large Map - Under Monarchy, my 10th city produced an unhappy chappie.
So map size certainly plays a part in the equation. And the PC version - on the basis of these immensely unscientific tests, anyway - allowed one less city before unhappiness under Monarchy than the Mac version. You'd have to do a lot more tests to make that a given, methinks.
That summary:
MAC
Small Map - 7 (before unhappiness)
Medium Map - 7
Large Map - 10
PC
Small - 6
Medium - 6
Large - 9
But, given my results, Smash's unhappiness factor - after 4 cities - does seem a bit odd.
Now I'll go and get a life.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]
My experience agrees with that...the only other thing that may affect it is the timeline. I think those numbers change as the game progresses.
Unless someone's found an incredibly sneaky alternative, the host's rules should apply to everyone.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
A question related to Smash's original post.
What happens if a player changes the game parametres in MP? Is it possible for a player to cheat by increasing the riot factor, for exampe?
What about the host, can he do it? How can you detect if someone has done such a thing, do the host's settings apply to all players? Or do "individual" settings apply? How do you detect it in that case?
Carolus
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