Theory X

[Zoetstofzoetje]

So we have this gardener/cleaning guy, who cleans the corridors, mows the grass, cleans the swimming pool, maintains the garden, and wipes down the sauna. These are the shared parts with a few neighbours.

Problem is, he's not the first. He's the third. The current one is about to be fired too. What happen?

The process is always the same. There's this massive unemployment around here. So we place an ad, a gazillion people apply, we pick one. Hurray. So far so good.

Initially they do a fab job. They should, they get paid a bit above-market. That is, until they settle in. Suddenly, the swimming pool isn't cleaned as often, the grass is only mown when it's not too sunny - and you know something has to change when you spot cockroaches in the sauna.

The only way to keep them working at the initial rate, seems to be, by treating them like factory workers. For our tubbies then, the following questions:

1) How do we prevent this from happening again? Continuous monitoring and coercion is not an option. I don't have the time, neither do my neighbours, they're hardly ever at home either.

2) If this is simply inevitable, should we rotate this post yearly, to prevent them from failing altogether, so we always have someone on their toes?

[gribbler]

I'm guessing you've already informed the cleaning guy that his performance is unsatisfactory and he still doesn't improve. In that case I guess he doesn't care if he loses his job.

[Felch]

Who would? He's a goddamn pool cleaner!

[rah]

I'm surprised that a person that hires as many people as you claim to have in other threads has a problem.

Set expectations of performance up front and hold them to it or fire them. This is no different than your workplace. The end results are so obvious that monitoring need not be extensive or time consuming. If no one can put the nominal time in then expect crappy results. How hard is to say, if we find cockroaches in the Sauna, you're toast.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

there's a massive difference between the people i normally work with, and the guys that do material stuff like this rah...

[rah]

Not really. There are people that are self motivated and those that have to be motivated (at all skill levels)
When you hire, you try to identify people that are self motivated. (regardless of the tasks you need done)
If you can't identify the difference, you should let others do the hiring.

[Aeson]

Import some of your father's "very loyal assistants" from the colonies?

[kittenOFchaos]

Show them the body of the last pool cleaner...

[Zoetstofzoetje]

one solution i thought of was hiring an overseer - problem, as we don't want to be bothered with checking on results, we're stuck in a turtles-all-the-way-down problem. responsibility without personal incentive, yeach.

[rah]

Show them the body of the last pool cleaner...

Yes, that can be quite effective.

[gribbler]

one solution i thought of was hiring an overseer - problem, as we don't want to be bothered with checking on results, we're stuck in a turtles-all-the-way-down problem. responsibility without personal incentive, yeach.

If the supervisor doesn't have to do any real work then I doubt it would be much of a problem. Of course, you're hiring two people to get one person's work done.

[Aeson]

one solution i thought of was hiring an overseer - problem, as we don't want to be bothered with checking on results, we're stuck in a turtles-all-the-way-down problem. responsibility without personal incentive, yeach.

do you really have to ask what is wrong here?

[rah]

Yep, no elitism here.

I want to know who will supervise the overseer.

[Dinner]

I'm surprised that a person that hires as many people as you claim to have in other threads has a problem.

Set expectations of performance up front and hold them to it or fire them. This is no different than your workplace. The end results are so obvious that monitoring need not be extensive or time consuming. If no one can put the nominal time in then expect crappy results. How hard is to say, if we find cockroaches in the Sauna, you're toast.

Around here when you want a maid or a pool cleaner you hire a company who comes so many hours so many times per week (unless you want to hire someone direct but then you have to fill out tax forms and go through the formal process which is a pain). It's all formalized and in the contract so you know exactly what you're getting, they know exactly what they have to do, and either they hold up their end or they don't. If they don't while there are a dozen other companies in the yellow pages offering the same service.

[Oncle Boris]

Write a detailed list of everything he has to do.

Ask him to upload/email a picture, for every task, of before and after. Make it clear during the interview that this is a job requirement. You probably don't even have to look at the pictures every week, the simple fact that he has to do it means he'll work better.

At the end of every month, pay a little extra and tell him to keep the change if he did well.

[Snotty]

Not really. There are people that are self motivated and those that have to be motivated (at all skill levels)
When you hire, you try to identify people that are self motivated. (regardless of the tasks you need done)
If you can't identify the difference, you should let others do the hiring.

Thanks for that Rah, I often feel my profession is unappreciated in America but Im glad you can see the importance of good workers.

As I make a career out working in the service industry of being a Gardener/Household staff, I get to see a wide variety of work ethics on the ground. I find my business spreads predominantly through word of mouth. This has the dual effect of happy customers freely advertising a service they are content with, and ensuring I maintain a high level of service throughout that entire word of mouth network as bad news travels fast.

I expect a caretaker/gardener position would be hard to fill effectively as the base rate of pay is not high, and in theory anyone can do the job. However in practice, as you have found, the job requires an attitude and mindset that you will not often find by picking the most eager guy of the unemployment line.

In short, look for word of mouth and experience. High quality property maintenance is a career, not pastime

[Jon Miller]

In short, look for word of mouth and experience. High quality property maintenance is a career, not pastime

I think this is Zoe's problem.

He needs to offer enough to take another high quality person away from their current job or find someone who wants to change jobs for other reasons (moving).

JM

[rah]

And he has to start thinking about it as a 'PROFESSIONAL' position, and not a serf position.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

So, the current guy did not need to be fired! He disappeared yesterday. Word is, he met a German girl who was here on a holiday, and eloped with her to Germany to follow his passion: become an electrician. So now we can't hand him his official notice. Good for him.

Also, we found another guy, who is more specialized in gardening than anything else, but willing to take on the cleaning tasks. I'm sure he'll have lots of fun with the roses. He's 50, so should be mature...

[Jon Miller]

And he has to start thinking about it as a 'PROFESSIONAL' position, and not a serf position.

Good point.

I was trying to think of a good way to say it, but wasn't doing a good job, so didn't.

JM

[Lorizael]

Also, we found another guy, who is more specialized in gardening than anything else, but willing to take on the cleaning tasks. I'm sure he'll have lots of fun with the roses. He's 50, so should be mature...

Make sure you don't accidentally hire the pan-dimensional bio-weapon-wielding alien instead.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

he did say something about purging the sauna of all life, but should be good, right?

[Lorizael]

Go for it.

[rah]

he did say something about purging the sauna of all life, but should be good, right?

It depends who's in it at the time, I guess.
I would suggest staying out of there for awhile.

[Oncle Boris]

I think that the posts by Americans are slightly disconnected from reality.

Latin Europeans definitely don't have the same kind of work ethics.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

yes, PWE is a little something special.

[Jon Miller]

Then import someone from England or Poland.

JM

[Dinner]

I think that the posts by Americans are slightly disconnected from reality.

Latin Europeans definitely don't have the same kind of work ethics.

We know they're lazy and useless. We see how their countries are all in the shitter (France is just taking longer to get there than the rest but it will get there).

[Aeson]

... don't have the same kind of work ethics.

That was obvious from the boss saying they didn't want to be bothered with managing their employee...

[rah]

Latin Europeans definitely don't have the same kind of work ethics.

I was going to post my typical, "that's the kind of racist crap that we expect from you" but I prefer Aeson's response.