Why isn't this murder?

[Al B. Sure!]

The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.
Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.
"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."
"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

The guy wasn't even charged?

[rah]

I assume charges will be pressed eventually. I think they just want to try to get all the facts first since this is likely to be a PR disaster.

[OzzyKP]

It should damn well be murder.

[rah]

While I'd like to assume it is, we don't have all the facts and with the kid dead, I doubt we'll ever get all of them.

[Dinner]

You give dumbasses guns and a bit of authority and bad things happen. They need a whole lot more training before they let some yahoo start walking the streets with a gun. Personally, I think the guy needs to be charged with manslaughter if not premeditated murder because the kid wasn't doing anything yet the guy shot him. Lock the son of a ***** up and throw away the key.

This country just has way to many men with tiny dicks who want to whip a gun out for no reason just to compensate for how crappy their life is.

[Dinner]

Oh, and we all know why the white guy called 911 and then shot the black kid, right? The only thing that makes a kid walking on the side walk "suspicious" was that he was black.

[The Mad Monk]

Yep, looks like murder.

[Hauldren Collider]

While I'd like to assume it is, we don't have all the facts and with the kid dead, I doubt we'll ever get all of them.

QFT

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Since I'm not on a jury or required to weigh any evidence, this is murder the guy should serve life if not capital punishment.

[loinburger]

I can't think of any extenuating circumstances that would make it not-murder aside from the dead teen packing heat or waving around a machete or whatever

[MrFun]

The teen was walking while being black.

[Wezil]

I can't think of any extenuating circumstances that would make it not-murder ...

Seriously? It's a "gated community". Theses things exist to keep the undesirables out. The black kid should have known this and adjusted his behaviour accordingly.

x-post - Mr. Fun understands.

[Al B. Sure!]

As far as I can understand, the guy's father and stepmother lived in the gated community.

It should be noted that the neighborhood watch captain got out of his car to confront the youth.

[gribbler]

Stepmothers... nothing but trouble.

[Wezil]

Don't forget the Skittles. He could have put someone's eye out.

[Donegeal]

I'm fairly certian that the watchman didn't just get out of his car and instantly shoot the kid. However, according to the obviously biased article Al quoted, the only details given about what happened were exactly that.

So, why wasn't he charged with murder? Because more information is needed.

[MrFun]

Don't forget the Skittles. He could have put someone's eye out.

yeah

[Al B. Sure!]

To be fair, there are reports that there was a scuffle before the shooting. However, even if this happened, I find a self-defense argument to be hard to make. The shooter called police, was instructed to wait, came out of the safety of his car to confront the youth... the extent of the confrontation was what? Did he attempt to restrain him? In such a case, the youth would be exercising self-defense against the shooter!

I imagine the can of Arizona ice tea in the jacket pocket will be described as a possible handgun.

[Al B. Sure!]

I'm fairly certian that the watchman didn't just get out of his car and instantly shoot the kid. However, according to the obviously biased article Al quoted, the only details given about what happened were exactly that.

So, why wasn't he charged with murder? Because more information is needed.

See my post above.

As for biased article?
http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html

It's a Reuters report. Not saying mainstream media doesn't show bias, but it's hardly from a controversial source.

[loinburger]

I'm fairly certian that the watchman didn't just get out of his car and instantly shoot the kid. However, according to the obviously biased article Al quoted, the only details given about what happened were exactly that.

So, why wasn't he charged with murder? Because more information is needed.

What could have happened that would justify homicide? I'm assuming that even an incompetent/biased reporter would have mentioned it if the kid was brandishing a machete or whatever.

[Wezil]

I imagine the can of Arizona ice tea in the jacket pocket will be described as a possible handgun.

I'm going with "furtive movement" as the cause.

[Hauldren Collider]

We don't have all the facts. In cases like this, details seem to come out which are initially ignored by sensationalist press stories. It's too early to assume he's guilty of something. Considering Donegeal is actually a cop, I'm inclined to agree with his perspective.

[Donegeal]

See my post above.

As for biased article?
http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html

It's a Reuters report. Not saying mainstream media doesn't show bias, but it's hardly from a controversial source.

My mistake. I read the 'loose cannon' part and mistaken thought is was from the writter of the article.

As for what could have happened... just about anything. That's all I'm saying. We don't know. Don't string the guy up until we get more information.

[Wezil]

We don't have all the facts.

So you're saying I should stop talking the topic so seriously?

[loinburger]

I agree that we don't have all of the facts, but what hypothetical facts would justify homicide in this case? Short of the kid actually having a handgun or machete, that is.

[Al B. Sure!]

What could have happened that would justify homicide? I'm assuming that even an incompetent/biased reporter would have mentioned it if the kid was brandishing a machete or whatever.

If the kid had fought him, would that justify it? But even in this case, why would the kid have fought him? The neighborhood watch guy (a 26-year old criminal justice student, reports are saying) almost certainly accosted him... what else could he have done? What was he trying to do to the youth? Make an arrest?

[loinburger]

As for what could have happened... just about anything.

I'm willing to entertain wild speculation on the subject. Hypothetically, what could the kid have done that would justify his being shot?

[loinburger]

If the kid had fought him, would that justify it? But even in this case, why would the kid have fought him? The neighborhood watch guy (a 26-year old criminal justice student, reports are saying) almost certainly accosted him... what was he trying to do to the youth? Make an arrest?

Okay, here's a situation in which the homicide would probably have been justified: the kid breaks into the guy's car and drags him out of it, then starts beating him, possibly using the iced tea bottle as a weapon.

If on the other hand the dude confronted the kid and started a fight, then I hardly think that he'd be justified in shooting the kid when he started to get his ass kicked.

[Al B. Sure!]

The PD held a news conference and this is the latest news from the Orlando Sentinel:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,1380794.story

The relevant parts:

Sanford police have interviewed George Zimmerman, the 25-year-old shooter who is white, several times and had him re-enact what happened, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Jr. said Thursday.

Both sides agree that Martin and Zimmerman scuffled before the shooting.

Police are still investigating, trying to determine whether Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter, according to department records. He told them he acted in self defense, and there's some evidence to corroborate that, the police chief said.

Police Thursday released an incident report that gave new clues that support Zimmerman.

When police arrived and found the body, they also found Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and back of his head, according to the report. Also, the back of his shirt was wet and had grass clippings on it, as if he'd been on his back on the ground.

And an officer overheard Zimmerman complain, " 'I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me,' " according to the report.

One of the things on which police are focusing is the background noise in a 911 call, the chief said.

"You can hear the struggle and the gunshot," he said.

Police want to enhance the background noise to better hear what went on, he said.

Zimmerman had spotted Martin in his gated community about 7:15 p.m. and called Sanford police on a non-emergency number, saying he'd just seen a suspicious person, both sides agreed.

That call then ended and police dispatched an officer. Before he arrived, however, the department got several other 911 calls, people complaining about two men fighting and a gunshot.

No where does it say exactly what Zimmerman was trying to do, said, or did to the youth.

Is picking a fight and then shooting the guy you started the fight with considered self-defense?

[Donegeal]

I agree that we don't have all of the facts, but what hypothetical facts would justify homicide in this case? Short of the kid actually having a handgun or machete, that is.

What if the kid went for the watchman's weapon? What if he actually managed to get the gun out of the holster during the struggle Al is talking about? What if during the struggle for the gun it went off accidentily? Hell, it could have even been the kids finger that pulled the trigger. We just don't know.