NFL Football - 2012 Season Thread

[Al B. Sure!]

Yes, because intending to injure other players makes you a "man".

Not only intending to injure other players but being financially rewarded to do so! Paid for concussions and cart-offs.

What's interesting, though, is the Saints defense were in the top half of the league for unnecessary roughness, unsportsman-like conduct, etc. penalties but weren't at the very top. It's possible that despite the bounty system, they weren't particular effective.

[Al B. Sure!]

I can't edit my post. Anyone else having problems with the box not being there?

But like I said, that's Buddy Ryan football so of course Ming and rah are cool with it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

On other forums, I have heard from Saints fans that one of the big complaints of the last few years was that the players seemed to be going for the "big hit" rather than making the fundamental tackle. This was obviously the reason why. But perhaps why they weren't #1 on penalties was that the bounty may have been on certain players & overexertion and overpersuit of those handful of players may have made them miss a bunch of tackles.

[Al B. Sure!]

You mean like this?

[Ming]

But like I said, that's Buddy Ryan football so of course Ming and rah are cool with it.

Yeah... I'm cool with LEGAL but hard hits.
But I guess you are too stupid to think that players haven't been going after other teams stars since the beginning of football.
Keep you head in the sand and continue to be ignorant.
The fact that they put a small payment system together (which was insignificant compared to what they make to actually play, and paid to hit hard in the first place) is no different than friendly poker games, bets on fantasy football, NCAA pools, and other small time wagering, which maybe illegal, but totally fine with most people.

And I thought this was all about the Saints and Williams.... not Buddy Ryan.
But as usual, you have to act like a moron... which is no surprise considering most of your thoughts and opinions.

[demonbinder]

We'll see if this changes the offer to Matt Forte and maybe get him off the franchise tag.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,3189837.story

[Al B. Sure!]

Ming really is an *******.


Anyway, John Clayton is saying the Bears are going to make a big push for Vincent Jackson.

[Ming]

Gee... Alby, you started it.

Such a moron... As usual, you are being an ass, and a stupid one at that.

[Al B. Sure!]

You're truly an *******, Ming.

Anyway...

The New Orleans Saints will work out former All-Pro receiver Randy Moss on Tuesday, multiple sources told FoxSports.com on Monday.

[-Jrabbit]

I do think it's important to distinguish between "boys making side bets" (locker room stuff, which frankly no one cares about) from what's actually alleged, which was management - especially coaches - endorsing headhunting tactics. Yes, the behavior has always been there and probably always will be. Rewarding and incentivizing that behavior is the issue. And if any of that money is not strictly between players, then you've got salary cap issues, even just a payoff for an INT.

Sure, the NFL is kidding itself if they think punishment and prohibition will end all bounties. I'm pretty sure they know that, duh.

But still, the league is right to treat this seriously.

[Ming]

You're truly an *******, Ming.

Coming from a jerk and a moron like you... thanks for the compliment

[rah]

Yes, because intending to injure other players makes you a "man".

This is not about intending to injure players, it's the indignation over something that has been and always will be a part of football. Yes they shouldn't be blatant and offer money for it. But stopping the money isn't going to change it. As long as it's a legal hit fine. If it's not, punish them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And if any of that money is not strictly between players, then you've got salary cap issues, even just a payoff for an INT.

That's the secondary issue. Lots of potential salary cap issues, esp if the Saints were pushing up against the limit these "bonuses" would likely have pushed them over and thus they've been in violation of the salary cap which carries its own draft day penalties.

[Donegeal]

For these players making hundreds of thousands of dollars, what's the difference between $1000 for a big hit and a 'buckeye' sticker for Ohio State?

[Ming]

Yeah... a couple of thousand here or there for these guys is pocket change...
Oh, and you do remember that the money comes from the players in the first place... the pool is usually created by fining the players for doing things wrong. So it's more a matter of redistribution...

But sure, go ahead and bring up cap issues... yeah... right.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Are you that stupid, Ming? The bounty money was augmented by Gregg Williams himself. How is that player money? Or are you just shooting your mouth off without any facts once AGAIN?!

[Donegeal]

The cap issues come from the coaches throwing money into the pot along with the players.

However, it only makes a difference if the Saints (and Bills and Skins) were running so close to the cap that $10,000 pushed the total over $85+ million. I don't think that's the case.

[Ming]

Are you that stupid, Ming? The bounty money was augmented by Gregg Williams himself. How is that player money? Or are you just shooting your mouth off without any facts once AGAIN?!

Yeah... and a lot of the money came from the players from the collecting of fines.
And if you really want to argue that this SMALL amount of money makes one bit of difference when the cap is in the millions... then you are the stupid one.
This story is NOT about CAP issues.

[Imran Siddiqui]

However, it only makes a difference if the Saints (and Bills and Skins) were running so close to the cap that $10,000 pushed the total over $85+ million. I don't think that's the case.

A lot of teams run dangerously close to the cap during the year. There is a very fine balance in cutting players at the right time to get under the figure.

[-Jrabbit]

Now we have allegations of outside money as well, not just from Greg Williams.

"According to a memo sent to N.F.L. teams explaining the situation,
money was contributed to the pool by at least one outsider, Michael Ornstein, a marketing agent who is close to Payton. Ornstein pledged $10,000 toward a quarterback bounty in the playoffs during the 2009 season, and offered substantial sums toward a bounty on an opposing quarterback last season on at least two occasions — once in an email to Payton.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...iltyplea100510

From Yahoo:

"Ornstein is a former league employee who pleaded guilty in 1995 to scheme to defraud the league of $350,000.

“Knowing Orny the way I do, there’s no question that he’ll do whatever he has to do to save himself, and that could be very bad for a lot of people,” one of the aforementioned sources said. “You’re talking about a lot of money changing hands. A lot of money and a lot people.”

Despite the prior conviction, Ornstein maintained an insider’s presence throughout football. He was a regular on NFL and NCAA sidelines, at NFL owner meetings and a confidant to both pro and college players and coaches.

Ornstein, who also once worked for the Raiders, most recently served as marketing agent for New Orleans Saints running back Reggie Bush(notes). Ornstein was named last summer in the NCAA infractions case against USC for providing extra benefits to Bush and his family during the player’s junior season with the Trojans.

Since Bush joined the Saints in 2006, which occurred after these charges, he was “a fixture at practices, games and in the locker room,” according to the New Orleans Times Picayune. Saints coach Sean Payton used an entire chapter of his recent book to detail Ornstein’s contributions to the team. He was a regular on the USC sidelines and team practices during the hey-day of Pete Carroll’s dynasty.

“We will not have any comment on the personal legal issues of Mike Ornstein,” wrote Saints spokesman Greg Bensel. “They do not involve the New Orleans Saints organization. He is not an employee of the Saints.”

Read more: http://forums.kffl.com/threads/29453...#ixzz1oNjHJYlL

Not an employee of the team, but this guy seemed to have Payton's ear and full run of the field. Getting interesting.

[Donegeal]

Okay, this may have just become a VERY big deal...

[rah]

Well it looks like there are reports coming out that the Colts will not be paying Mannings bonus.

And yeah JR, that changes everything.

[H Tower]

I'm waiting for the story about the team supplied hookers that were certified STD free. I can't wait for the explanations of that. "The players were going to have a hooker bash whether we gave them to them or not, so we chose to supply them with safe hookers"

[-Jrabbit]

Scuttlebutt is that this might all tie back into Sean Payton's Vicodin habit.

Paging Dr. House!

[SlowwHand]

Nice spin. So he now blames the drug manufacturer and sues them, in a lame case that may or may not win, but takes heat off him?

[-Jrabbit]

Don't get ahead, Sloww. At this point, it's just speculated that this Olmstead guy is a "fixer" who got "in" with Coach Payton because he was able to deliver Vicodin. It is thought that Payton had a problem in the addiction area. And he has worked pretty hard to keep it quiet.

[Ming]

Yep... now that changes everything. It's no longer a simple story...

And which team do you think Payton will end up on.
I'm betting on Miami.

[rah]

Washington so he can face his brother more. I think Sexy Rexy has overstayed his welcome.

[-Jrabbit]

Washington will offer the most money, but that team's kind of a mess. I think Manning is more likely to go somewhere with a top WR to throw to -- Miami or Arizona.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Now we have allegations of outside money as well, not just from Greg Williams.



Not an employee of the team, but this guy seemed to have Payton's ear and full run of the field. Getting interesting.

Also more information that Sean Payton knew about all about the scheme. And reports that the Saints were told to knock this off a few years ago & the Saints said they would... and promptly ignored it.