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Thread: Fair is fair . . . Georgia Democrats propose an anti-vasectomy bill

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    Fair is fair . . . Georgia Democrats propose an anti-vasectomy bill

    Georgia Democrats propose limitations on vasectomies for men
    As members of Georgia’s House of Representatives debate whether to prohibit abortions for women more than 20 weeks pregnant, House Democrats introduced their own reproductive rights plan: No more vasectomies that leave "thousands of children ... deprived of birth."

    Rep. Yasmin Neal, a Democrat from the Atlanta suburb of Jonesboro, planned on Wednesday to introduce HB 1116, which would prevent men from vasectomies unless needed to avert serious injury or death.

    The bill reads: "It is patently unfair that men avoid the rewards of unwanted fatherhood by presuming that their judgment over such matters is more valid than the judgment of the General Assembly. ... It is the purpose of the General Assembly to assert an invasive state interest in the reproductive habits of men in this state and substitute the will of the government over the will of adult men."

    “If we legislate women’s bodies, it’s only fair that we legislate men’s,” said Neal, who said she wanted to write bill that would generate emotion and conversation the way anti-abortion bills do. “There are too many problems in the state. Why are you under the skirts of women? I’m sure there are other places to be."

    Personally, Neal said, she has no qualms with vasectomies.

    “But even if it were proposed as a serious issue,” she said, “it’s still not my place as a woman to tell a man what to do with his body."

    The anti-vasectomy bill was a response to a bill that would punish abortions performed after the 20th week of pregnancy with prison sentences between one and 10 years. Georgia law currently prohibits abortion after the second trimester, except to preserve the life and health of the mother. Neal's bill borrows some language directly from the anti-abortion bill.

    The anti-abortion bill makes exceptions to avert death or “serious risk of substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function” of the mother, but doesn’t include “diagnosis or claim of a mental or emotional condition.” If an abortion occurs after the 20th week, the bill requires doctors to attempt to deliver a living baby.

    Earlier discussions about the bill have been “outstanding,” said Rep. Doug McKillip, a Republican from Athens, Georgia, who introduced the anti-abortion bill this month. He said legislators are “drilling down" on questions about when a fetus can feel pain and what exceptions can allow abortions later in pregnancy, and he expects more testimony late this week.

    “I’m just disappointed in my colleague, that they would take this opportunity to make light of a very important topic,” McKillip said. “I believe this is a serious topic deserving of serious debate. It feels like a poor attempt at humor.”

    Neal said she's serious about making legislators recognize women's rights to make private decisions about their bodies.

    "I hope that through the madness this has caused, it gets him to understand where the woman is coming from," she said. "There are a number of women in other states trying the same ploys we’re trying here."

    Earlier this month, Democratic Oklahoma Sen. Constance Johnson added – then withdrew – a provision to an anti-abortion bill that read "any action in which a man ejaculates or otherwise deposits semen anywhere but in a woman's vagina shall be interpreted and construed as an action against an unborn child." The state Senate passed the bill this month.

    In January, as the Virginia state Senate debated a bill that required women to have an ultrasound before an abortion, Democrat Janet Howell attached an amendment that required men to have rectal exams and cardiac stress tests before they could receive prescriptions for erectile dysfunction medication like Viagra. The amendment was rejected in the Senate, 21-19.

    CNN affiliate WAVY reported that hundreds gathered this week to protest the ultrasound bill, which is up for a vote in Virginia's House of Delegates, and another that says life begins at conception.

    On the Georgia House floor, Neal doesn't anticipate her anti-vasectomy bill will generate much serious debate.

    "If it moves anywhere," she said, "that’ll be a very interesting day."
    Why should we attack women's right to make private decisions, and not men's?

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/21...omies-for-men/
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    This will totally make sense to the people who arbitrarily decided that "life begins at conception" and sperm cells have no right to live while fertilized egg cells do.
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    Some Republicans are trying to pass a life-begins-at-conception bill in Virginia. It remains to be seen if McDonnell will sign it or not. He recently demurred on an abortion restriction bill.
    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFun View Post
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    Why should we attack women's right to make private decisions, and not men's?
    I don't think you'll find many people arguing that a woman lacks a right to a tubal ligation. So where is the equivalence?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
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    Some Republicans are trying to pass a life-begins-at-conception bill in Virginia. It remains to be seen if McDonnell will sign it or not. He recently demurred on an abortion restriction bill.
    Isn't Virginia introducing legislation that would force women seeking abortions to have something stuck up their vagina for an ultrasound? "Hey, I'm sorry you were raped and want to get rid of the fetus, but before you get an abortion we're going to force you to have something stuck inside you again!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
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    Isn't Virginia introducing legislation that would force women seeking abortions to have something stuck up their vagina for an ultrasound?
    You're a moron.
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    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    Quote Originally Posted by DinoDoc View Post
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    You're a moron.
    Can your one liners get any lazier?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
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    Can your one liners get any lazier?
    What do you expect when you ask stupid questions like that? Protip: Ultrasound doesn't work like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
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    Some Republicans are trying to pass a life-begins-at-conception bill in Virginia. It remains to be seen if McDonnell will sign it or not. He recently demurred on an abortion restriction bill.
    Doesn't he also want a "vaginal penetration" ultra sound where a probe has to be stuck up a woman's who-ha? It's completely medically unnecissary, doctors are against it, but Republicans love it. I thought they didn't want "government bureaucrats getting between you and your doctor"? Kind of shows how full of **** that claim was, huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
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    Can your one liners get any lazier?
    He doesn't discuss issues or facts and instead just bandies about one line insults. Sadly, he has gotten pretty lazy with his one liners.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    Doesn't he also want a "vaginal penetration" ultra sound where a probe has to be stuck up a woman's who-ha? It's completely medically unnecissary, doctors are against it, but Republicans love it. I thought they didn't want "government bureaucrats getting between you and your doctor"? Kind of shows how full of **** that claim was, huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinoDoc View Post
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    What do you expect when you ask stupid questions like that? Protip: Ultrasound doesn't work like that.
    The one proposed in Virginia does. They deliberately chose the most invasive procedure possible, want to make it legally required, because they hope the more traumatic and invasive the procedure is the fewer women will want to go through with it. It's disgusting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
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    Isn't Virginia introducing legislation that would force women seeking abortions to have something stuck up their vagina for an ultrasound? "Hey, I'm sorry you were raped and want to get rid of the fetus, but before you get an abortion we're going to force you to have something stuck inside you again!"
    That's the legislation McDonnell demurred on. They are going to remove that requirement because he wasn't going to sign it. To be fair however, Planned Parenthood requires this anyway when they give abortions. They will not perform an abortion unless you get an ultrasound. Apparently, this is the medical standard. Which sort of makes the bill pointless anyway, I suppose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    The one proposed in Virginia does. They deliberately chose the most invasive procedure possible, want to make it legally required, because they hope the more traumatic and invasive the procedure is the fewer women will want to go through with it. It's disgusting.
    Incorrect. They were going to require an ultrasound, which for early abortions, requires transvaginal ultrasounds because the fetus is too small to see with a normal one. For later abortions, normal ultrasounds would be used.
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    Feminists are calling it "the rape sonogram"

    http://thefeministwire.com/2012/02/r...eaboutcontrol/

    Anti-abortion nutjobs deliberately are trying to mandate the worst and most horrible method possible because they think if they do fewer women will go through it to get an abortion. These are some really disgusting conservatives we're talking about.

    More info on Virginia's proposed (it's already passed the legislature and we all know the Republican governor will sign it) vaginal probe law: http://www.christianpost.com/news/vi...bortion-68536/

    Oh, the same dirt bags also want to pass a "life begins at conception" law that would outlaw the birth control pill in Virginia. When did Virginia become darkest dumb****istan?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    Feminists are calling it "the rape sonogram"

    http://thefeministwire.com/2012/02/r...eaboutcontrol/

    Anti-abortion nutjobs deliberately are trying to mandate the worst and most horrible method possible because they think if they do fewer women will go through it to get an abortion. These are some really disgusting conservatives we're talking about.
    This is openly false, as I explained above. They are (rather, were planning on) mandating an ultrasound. Not a transvaginal ultrasound. However at early stages of pregnancy, ultrasounds must be transvaginal to see anything. Christ.

    But to tell you the truth, from the perspective that abortion is murder, any means to dissuade people from murdering seems like fair game, doesn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    The one proposed in Virginia does.
    Given your loose relationship with facts, I would like a link from a news source to substantiate your statements here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    More info on Virginia's proposed (it's already passed the legislature and we all know the Republican governor will sign it) vaginal probe law: http://www.christianpost.com/news/vi...bortion-68536/

    Oh, the same dirt bags also want to pass a "life begins at conception" law that would outlaw the birth control pill in Virginia. When did Virginia become darkest dumb****istan?
    You really are an idiot. Or at least, you can't read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
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    Watch out, Dinodoc might call you a moron
    I think it's pretty clear DD is the moron on this issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    I think it's pretty clear DD is the moron on this issue.
    I think it's pretty clear you can't ****ing read, Oerdin.

    McDonnell removing requirement on ultrasounds:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...niTR_blog.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
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    You really are an idiot. Or at least, you can't read.
    Well, the governor did hedge today saying he wanted some changes to the bill before he signed it but if he wants to run for Pres in the future (and it looks like he does) then he'll have to sign something restricting abortion access.

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/vir...ltrasound-law/

    In his credit he wants to make it just an external ultra sound instead of a vaginal penitration ultra sound; which is what the bill currently requires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    Well, the governor did hedge today saying he wanted some changes to the bill before he signed it but if he wants to run for Pres in the future (and it looks like he does) then he'll have to sign something restricting abortion access.
    Well he already did do that. He increased the safety restrictions on abortion clinics to that of ordinary hospitals, which is going to result in some clinic closures.
    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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    Can't we just say that you are both wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
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    I think it's pretty clear you can't ****ing read, Oerdin.

    McDonnell removing requirement on ultrasounds:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...niTR_blog.html
    No, he didn't dumb ass. He's proposing changes and that happened just two hours ago (according to the link I posted). He still wants an ultra sound but he's backing down under pressure and saying he'll let it be an external ultra sound instead of the vaginal penetration ultra sound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    No, he didn't dumb ass. He's proposing changes and that happened just two hours ago (according to the link I posted). He still wants an ultra sound but he's backing down under pressure and saying he'll let it be an external ultra sound instead of the vaginal penetration ultra sound.
    Wrong. This has been under negotiation for the last day, in fact the last two days I think. Unlike you I actually keep track of Virginia politics (not that I would expect you to). From what I can tell, Republican leadership in the General Assembly and the governor reached a compromise today.
    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
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    But to tell you the truth, from the perspective that abortion is murder, any means to dissuade people from murdering seems like fair game, doesn't it?
    Here are some attempts to see just what HC means by "any means":

    a) "we will give you candy if you choose to have the baby" - Van HC
    b) "we will stick this thing up your vagina even if you don't want us to, if you try to have an abortion" - Virginia HC
    c) "we will give you hallucinatory drugs so you won't even know you're pregnant if you choose to have the baby" - Pusher HC
    d) "Have an abortion and we'll gas your whole ethnicity/religion" - Hitler HC
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinoDoc View Post
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    What do you expect when you ask stupid questions like that? Protip: Ultrasound doesn't work like that.
    do you even know what youre talking about in relation to the law and medicine.
    Last edited by MRT144; February 22, 2012 at 20:56.
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  28. #28
    DaShi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
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    Here are some attempts to see just what HC means by "any means":

    a) "we will give you candy if you choose to have the baby" - Van HC
    b) "we will stick this thing up your vagina even if you don't want us to, if you try to have an abortion" - Virginia HC
    c) "we will give you hallucinatory drugs so you won't even know you're pregnant if you choose to have the baby" - Pusher HC
    d) "Have an abortion and we'll gas your whole ethnicity/religion" - Hitler HC
    Van HC is by far the most reprehensible.
    “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
    "Capitalism ho!"

  29. #29
    Aeson
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaShi View Post
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    Van HC is by far the most reprehensible.
    You've ruined everything
    "tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"
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  30. #30
    DaShi
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    It's what I do.
    “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
    "Capitalism ho!"

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