Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

finbar · November 29, 2010, 10:12

When I've read one of your columns in The Independent I'll let you know.

The French effort doesn't count. It was one of M'sieur Marc's experiments gone wrong. Why he has gutted a perfectly good 6 Nations-winning team I have no idea. Plus, they - well, as good as surrendered in the last fifteen minutes. It was a backline training exhibition for the Wallabies. Breathtakingly executed but kind of like ducks in a barrel.

Yes, the ABs lead the way. I think they were probably tired against the Taffys. Other than that I reckon the world rankings are about right.

finbar · November 30, 2010, 06:00

Barbarians: James O'Connor (Aus); Joe Rococoko (NZ), Drew Mitchell (Aus), Adam Ashley-Cooper (Aus), Ma'a Nonu (NZ); Matt Giteau (Aus, capt), Will Genia (Aus); Salvatore Perugini (It), Stephen Moore (Aus), Neemia Tialata (NZ), Anton van Zyl (Stormers), Chris Jack (NZ), Rodney So'oialo (NZ), Martyn Williams (Wales), Colin Bourke (Chiefs).

Replacements: Keven Mealamu (NZ), John Yapp (Wales), Quintin Geldenhuys (It), Daniel Braid (NZ), Andy Ellis (NZ), Stephen Donald (NZ), Seru Rabeni (Fiji).

Looks like there could be a couple of tries amongst that backline.

Havak · November 30, 2010, 06:32

More likely to be the Daily Mirror - I can handle their column sizes for Union.

And just one player from a UK based team joins the baaa-baas - which one might say is on form but is actually because it is outside the IRB window so most clubs will not release players.

Crofty has a broken shoulder by the way. The BBC expects him to be fit for the 6N - we shall see. I fear Brand Haskell is hoving into view....

finbar · November 30, 2010, 11:14

Yes, shame about young Croft. He was the only one threatening the Boks at the time. The 6 Nations is a bit over eight weeks away. I think he'll be lucky. Looking forward to the 6 Nations to see who builds on (or drops away) from the autumn Tests. The unknown factor, as always, is France. If M'sieur Marc cares to choose anything like an appropriate team they should go close. Or not. As always. And I thought being a Wallaby supporter was a recipe for ulcers.

LDiCesare · November 30, 2010, 13:12

Some people around here say the biggest problem with Lièvremont is he still hasn't settled on a team, particularly the backs. Trinh Duc seems a given at 10 and was hurt, but his replacement is unclear (Skrela is the most experienced there for instance). The centers, well... The full back change from Poitrenaud is really surprising. As for the wingers, many were hurt during the 6N, so there wasn't much stability there either. Still, keeping the same players together and having them play with each other has some merits, independently on the qualities of this or that one. Right now, France has no back line, just a list of more or less talented players playing more or less in their position.

Havak · December 1, 2010, 04:57

So the parallels with the Wallabies continue?

finbar · December 1, 2010, 05:28

Let he who is without lumps of shyte in his backline like M. Tindall cast the first stone.

Havak · December 2, 2010, 05:45

Well it's not like I select him you know

I'd have Waldouck or Clarke in the 13 shirt. Or even Hipkiss - because at least when he boshes he stays on his feet to give his forwards something to work with! Oh and he has a brain of course.

Predictable IRB awards again? Hard to argue with them really.

finbar · December 2, 2010, 06:20

Except Hipkiss isn't porking some cloth-eared Royal bint.

finbar · December 2, 2010, 12:00

One assumes all of Leicester is in mourning after England didn't get past the first round of the silly contest in Switzerland.

Havak · December 4, 2010, 05:47

Probably. Even in this county Footy is the more followed game. It's the national game in fact - and they do take it very seriously.

Does it surprise anyone that FIFA is plagued by allegations of corruption? The system is an archaic one and the whole organisation is helmed by a rather odious little fellow who does not bother to conceal his anglophobia.

And I had no interest in the process at all - couldn't care less about the junior junior code of football myself. But when the PM is saying we should ignore blatant and obvious corruption until after the vote I think the world has gone quite mad. Actually Rooney earning a million every four weeks is madness - the game is reaching a crisis point as the players roll in gold.

Apparently the game at Exiles should go ahead today - not sure what it is like in Italia Finbar but we are having a very early and very nasty cold snap. Both friday Prem games were off.

And in the other game where exactly has this form for Cook come from? He has been struggling all year. Is the Aussie attack a weak one?

finbar · December 4, 2010, 07:09

The pitches thus far have been like roads. Plus the Australian bowling attack is, these days, only honest at best. The halcyon days are gone. England should take the series comfortably. Especially if the Australian selectors continue their stubborn approach, persisting with the likes of Michael Clark, carrying a chronic back injury and seriously out of form; Marcus North at 6, who either makes nothing or a ton, so completely unreliable, particularly under pressure. There are some very talented young batsmen coming through who should have started in Brisbane. There are also younger, more promising spinners than the journeyman they've selected. Chickens are coming home to roost.

The blizards haven't hit us yet in central Italy. The north's a different matter.

As to the matter of that farce in Switzerland, England - and, for that matter, Australia - got what they deserved. Knowing the system is corrupt, embracing it, grizzling after the event. Pathetic.

Havak · December 4, 2010, 12:08

I tend to agree. The excuse no doubt is that they had to work within the system that exists (but having lost they feel honour bound to point out it is corrupt).

Excellent win for Tigers at Exiles - 23 to 14. Places us nicely second as the Premiership pauses for Europe. Saints remain the form side but their game tomorrow is off.

Saw the highlights of the England innings this afternoon. Plenty of missed chances for Aus. Ponting's face told a story throughout. He has been a great servant of Aus but it is certainly not the best Aus side he has played in.

LDiCesare · December 5, 2010, 06:37

Originally Posted by Havak

Apparently the game at Exiles should go ahead today - not sure what it is like in Italia Finbar but we are having a very early and very nasty cold snap. Both friday Prem games were off.

In France it's quite cold too. My last two matches were cancelled because of frozen pitch.

Havak · December 5, 2010, 08:16

It looks like your match next weekend is at risk too - more freezing temps on the way here until the end of the week at least.

finbar · December 6, 2010, 03:18

Shame. It will work against his selection as back-up hooker to Servat. Assuming he can throw into a lineout.

finbar · December 11, 2010, 12:25

I'm suing Leicester and Perpignan for wasting a couple of hours of my life, a couple of hours I'll never get back again. Two sub-par performances in a shambles of a game. It was inevitable that Perpignan would eventually stop fumbling and knocking on and their more talented backs would eventually get over the line. And so it went. I've also never seen the Leicester scrum so monstered. Neither prop was ever binding properly and the ref was lenient in the extreme with them. Poor G. Murphy. He crossed for a try, but he already owed his teammates two, so he still owes them one.

I should have watched Aironi tip out Biarritz instead.

finbar · December 12, 2010, 12:41

Gee, unsurprisingly, Ospreys are very Welsh. Very little clue behind a strong scrum. Phillips wants to play like a second rower and Biggar has the tactical nouse of a gnat. What hope does anyone outside them have? Munster just too seasoned, too professional.

Havak · December 13, 2010, 07:52

Yes but Tigers should beat them easily at home never the less.

Probably a good thing Venter is heading home - wonder how long the authorities would ignore his utter childishness otherwise? Sarries used to be a great club - they seem to be run by total muppets now.

finbar · December 13, 2010, 10:52

Probably. Given that it's likely they won't travel. Wouldn't hurt to do something about the scrum. You might consider pulling the boots out of the cupboard under the stairs.

I read somewhere that Venter's a doctor. Very strange man. Childish best describes it. Anyway, whatever his foibles he still hasn't produced a team that can play consistent, cohesive rugby. Last season's early form was an aberration.

Havak · December 14, 2010, 03:06

I can improve our scrum enormously (or rather not detrimentally affect it) just by leaving those boots where they are.

I would imagine a lot of training ground time will be spent in that area - Welford Road does not meekly accept our scrums going backwards (we can get a bit vocal about it).

And Venter is symptomatic of the club executive Finbar - desperate to pick fights with ERC and EPR they all come across as very childish. No wonder Watford finally evicted them.

Now Mr Henson has been kicked off the dancing show rugby is back in his life - he thinks Wales are due a grand slam and all it will take is his selection. Good to see 18 months off has given him a bit of perspective?

kittenOFchaos · December 14, 2010, 11:26

Cole is the problem at scrum time and he is always looking to buy a penalty by collasping as he isn't up to the job - he gets away with it far too often.

That is my reading of it.

Front rows like him are going to get the scrum taken out of rugby union.

finbar · December 15, 2010, 03:01

Young Dan is a trier with potential. What he has is a technique problem. He rarely binds securely or legally and has to resort to a mitt on the ground. It's been evident for at least a season and it's time his coaches helped him out.

Havak · December 15, 2010, 03:17

Dan Cole responsible for the scrum being removed from Union?

Wow - I knew he had minor technique issues to resolve but to have the weight of Union continuing as a viable sport on his young shoulders? Poor lad!

Poor technique being flagged by a Sale fan? Ever watched Sherdian when the opposing tight head gets under him? Woeful technique!

kittenOFchaos · December 15, 2010, 15:28

Not Dan Cole on his own...but, his failure to keep scrums up, like many so-called top props is making it the worst aspect of the modern game. We need more like Julian White minus his penchant for kicking anyone that is on the ground next to him.

finbar · December 16, 2010, 03:30

Methinks many of the scrum problems these days are down to the idiotic IRB and their "crouch, touch, etc" edict. Not only do different refs time their calls differently - and I've even seen individual refs change their timing within the course of a match - it only puts even more emphasis on the collision, the most dynamic aspect of the procedure, hence most likely to fail. That aside, if the "crouch, touch, etc" silliness is to continue, refs should call time off as soon as the scrum goes down and - in the case of resets - call time back on again just prior to the idiotic call.

Havak · December 16, 2010, 06:36

Yes that makes sense I think. I don't mind the idea of carefully set scrums (i.e. sans the engage) as long as they remain competitive thereafter. But that means straight feeds being enforced?

White was an exceptional scrummager - there are very few like him. Even more exceptional at putting the boot in at times (sadly).

One of the unsung losses for England after 2003 was Woodman - a fine scrummager.

I don't think Cole - or even England - are alone in scrum problems right now. Over to the IRB maybe in the way Finbar suggests?

finbar · December 20, 2010, 03:42

Nearly choked on my cappuccino this morning. Cockers is fuming over "cheating".

What a waste of cappuccino sprayed all over the computer screen. Ventner last week, Cockers this week, it's the season for coaches to make d*cks - and that isn't ducks - of themselves. You're putting yourself in poor company, Cockers. Stop it.

D. Hartley is a very poor influence at Saints. A quality team is being tainted by cynicism, sniping and cheap shots. Saints -v- Cardiff was actually unpleasant viewing yesterday. Saints barely deserved the win despite massive scrum dominance. Their defence was slipshod - Ashton was badly exposed several times - and only when the likes of Foden started running in the second half did they look dangerous. I think they're going to struggle against better teams with equally strong packs. Xavier Rush's red card shouldn't go any further. His supposed head-high on Lawes only became so when Lawes slipped to one knee just prior to the collision.

It's a long time since I've seen scrum demolitions two days in a row. Yesterday Saints destroyed Cardiff, the day before it was Munster who were severely embarrassed.

Havak · December 21, 2010, 03:20

Cockers was a hooker - and with all due respect to our french comrade they do tend to engage mouth before brain on occassion.

Tigers should still win our pool - Scarlets are eminently beatable and haven't been the premier welsh outfit for a decade now. Beats me why Ospreys are doing so well - performing better than the sum of their parts that is for sure.

*edit* Having read what he said it is basically true. I think the question becomes one of whether coaches should criticise weak officiating - or indeed officiating directives? The breakdown is a disaster area and in my opinion has been ever since the IRB removed proper rucking from the game. In my day if you stuck your body on the wrong side you knew you would get (and fully deserve) a proper shoe-ing. They do need to do something about players laying all over the ball - it's killing the game far more than the issues with scrums.

finbar · December 21, 2010, 04:18

Ospreys' scrum is firing on all cylinders, constantly winning penalties, a massive head start. Last week they didn't capitalise, they were Welsh - attacking ball wasted. This week they were better - Hook actually touched the ball - and attacked with some purpose. But, with such a powerful scrum, and with the talent in the backline, they're underachievers. Very Welsh. The Munster scrum is becoming an embarrassment.