Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[Havak]

I am in danger of becoming excited that good times may be in store for club and country then.

[finbar]

Club, possibly; country, not with the current mindset.

[kittenOFchaos]

A very strong performance by England in the Junior World Cup Final against New Zealand. However, a few stupid decisions by no more than three players resulted in a close defeat (no. 15 being charged down being the worst as it clearly wasn't on).

What was pleasing is that at this level, the English team is highly mobile, can get over the gain line and score tries. Hopefully they don't lose this as they mature.

[finbar]

What was pleasing is that at this level, the English team is highly mobile, can get over the gain line and score tries. Hopefully they don't lose this as they mature.

Wishful thinking, my friend. They will have any creative spark and initiative coached out of them. Under the current set up anyway.

[Havak]

Sadly that is all too likely.

I find I am depressing myself somewhat as try as I might I just can't raise any enthusiasm for the upcoming RWC. In trying to understand why I think it is partly because I think it is almost a foregone conclusion in terms of result and partly because (as Finbar has already pointed out) it is likely to broadcast at times that will mean I don't get to see too much of it.

I'd welcome someone giving me a reason to start getting interested?

[finbar]

You'll see England out at the pool stage, humiliated, a huge shake up and overhaul at HQ, followed by a period in which England finally achieve their potential.

Or at least the first two above possibilities.

[LDiCesare]

Seeing England get trashed at some point should be sufficient reason for anyone to watch the World Cup.
The good thing is this will apply to most nations. Replace England by Wales, or France, if that makes it more appealing to you.

[finbar]

Replace England by Wales, or France, if that makes it more appealing to you.

Frankly, it's more appealing to me to leave it as England.

[Havak]

I knew I could rely on you gentlemen, thank you.

[finbar]

What's more, Leicester start next season against three superpowers - Exeter, Wasps and Newcastle. I can see Leicester winless and heading for relegation after three rounds.

[Havak]

The truth is we simply never know. We should be competing at the top again but the Wasps probably felt that in 2008/2009.

Saracens negative but effective gameplan will take some unpicking (allowing proper rucking again would help with that).

And I have a lot of time for Dai Young dating back to his skippering the midweekers when I was in Oz in 2001 but whilst I wish him well personally I cannot wish him professional success in his new job (as head of the untouchable caste).

[finbar]

I've seen no evidence that Dai Young can coach so Wasps are likely to remain as garbage as they are.

[finbar]

So a Crusaders -v- Reds S15 final. Fair enough. Arguably the two best teams in the comp. Extraordinary effort by the Crusaders given their season's misery - the Christchurch earthquake, the trauma of same, playing "home" matches all over NZ. I can't see the Reds beating them. The Crusaders' pack will have the Reds' scrum on roller skates and, as gifted as Will Genia is behind a pack going backwards, life will be difficult for him. Quade Cooper produced his trademark magic in spades against the Blues - even if he kicked appallingly - but I can't see the Crusaders allowing him the time and space.

In other news, Brand Haskell plans a mini-sabbatical including Japan and a season in S15 before scurrying back to Wasps. With his father as his manager, and the gene pool IQ shallower than a puddle, presumably big bucks will be asked for a season in S15. So which team in their right mind is going to fork out big bucks for a single solitary season for a player utterly untried in S15 conditions? And, I would further suggest, unsuited to S15 rugby.

[Havak]

I would say an Aussie franchise with more money than sense. Rebels then?

[finbar]

They've already spent wisely - Kurtley Beale and James O'Connor for next season - so there ain't going to be many bikkies left in the tin. And, with Lipman and Delve, they've already got backrowers more honest, hard working and productive than Haskell. What they actually need is a front row and a couple of decent locks.

[Havak]

Do the NZ franchises still run a closed shop Finbar - local franchises for local people? Kind of limits Brand Haskells options? Still I was prepared to give him a chance when he escaped the insects - now he is heading back to them I couldn't care less about him once again.

Are Farce still big spender or does all the ARU (or SANZAR?) support now go into Rebels?

Saracens and Wasps - two sides whose utter dissolution would not trouble me in the slightest.

[finbar]

The Kiwis had already amended the rules to allow one foreigner per franchise with tough restrictions. This season they were allowed two with the same restrictions. No franchise has recruited a foreigner. They don't seem to be interested.

The Force have been financially independent for a while. Though any of the Australian franchises can apply to the ARU for top-up money to help sign/retain key players. If the ARU doesn't think the player is worth it, they don't cough up. The Rebels are backed by the Melbourne Business Establishment who have bottomless pockets. The Rebels would easily be the richest SH franchise or, at least, have the most reserves to call on.

[Havak]

Interesting. I would assume S15 has no salary cap?

And by foreigner I assume the Kiwi franchises mean players non-qualified through residency, birth or reciprocal arrangements? You know that tradiitonal caveat that now lets England field any darn nationaility they might care to (but most notably Boks).

Ben Youngs has had cartilage trimmed in his left knee btw. Knees are the bane of most scrummys lives.

[finbar]

I don't know about the others but the Australian franchises will have a cap of about $4.5 million next season, reducing to around $4 million the season after. There's also a reduced squad size - from memory 30 core players plus a handful of rookie contracts. The Waratahs already want the 30 player limit increased after their massive injury toll this season. They were raiding club rugby towards the end of the season. The Reds suffered just as badly - at one stage late in the season they were missing their entire starting backline - but don't seem to be protesting that I've heard.

Yes, the Kiwis mean non-qualified in those terms. That English loophole doesn't exist in the SH.

So Youngs with a good knee now just needs to learn how to play when his pack and forwards aren't rampant. He really does need to watch Will Genia in action. The Reds' forwards are strong in the loose but rubbish in the set piece. That's why the Crusaders should roll them next weekend.

[Havak]

Worth a bet on your call there perhaps? I wonder who kOc will be punting on?

In order to improve behind a reversing pack Ben needs more experience doing so - and he doesn't get that often enough. S15 might do him good - certain franchises that is.

Kolpak might not exist for NZ and Aus but naturalisation certainly does and has been used frequently, as has the small percentage of genes qualification and various other England-esque wriggles (I still fondly recall the Bok U21 skipper becoming Australian). Nothing from SANZAR or England to match grannygate in Wales or any number of Kilted Kiwis of course.

And does anyone remember Jason Jones-Hughes?

[kittenOFchaos]

It is going to take alot of thought and consideration. My gut instinct is Reds, but that does mean discounting some of the advantages the Crusaders have over them.

[finbar]

Forwards aside - in the set piece - there are many potentially very interesting contests. Both defences can be outstanding, both back rows are very strong (the Crusaders stronger), massive speed and great skill in the Reds' backline, massive size and skill in the Crusaders' centres. Quade Cooper utterly bamboozled the Blues' defence last week - there were a couple of dreadful defensive lapses, too, to be fair - but I do fear that the Reds rely on him too much. The games they've lost this season - not many - have been a result of Cooper not being able to do his thing. They proved not to have other options. The Crusaders usually do.

[Havak]

I have to back Crusaders given that they are our feeder club.

[finbar]

Thus in one sentence was English rugby condemned.

[finbar]

The Reds got away with one. The Crusaders were, by their standards, off the pace, kept in the game by their defence, their forwards and a generous ref at the breakdown. He let them get away with murder but then most refs do. Their attack was disjointed, handling poor, and they looked stuffed in the last 15 minutes. They did succeed in heavily pressuring the Genia-Cooper combo which frustrated them enormously. Not the pair's finest hour. Apart from Genia's solo try. Lovely stuff.

[Havak]

And it also reinforces why I don't bet. So Reds as Super Rugby champions - truly anything can happen in the game.

[finbar]

As RWC 2003 proved. No real surprises in the Wallaby extended TN squad. No Stirling Mortlock. Age and injury have reduced his potency. He's a willing trier for the Rebels these days. The worry is Berrick Barnes' ongoing concussion problems. He hasn't been selected in the squad in order that he rests. Barring further problems he will be in the WC squad but, sadly, one more concussion will probably see his retirement.

[Havak]

All I remember RWC2003 for for is the total lack of grace or respect from the host nations PM to the victors. Or indeed to anyone who was not Australian. Situation normal therefore.

As for Barnes that would be sad - but you don't take repeated chances with your brain bouncing off your skull.

[finbar]

Thats' why I moved to a civilised country. You should try it, too.

[Havak]

I can't afford it.

*ironically I see your adopted home is now under threat of needing a bail out from it's fellow EU members.