Healthcare Reform Thread II

[Drake Tungsten]

The challenge is to keep the waiting lines in order and so that you get enough time with a doctor, but this can be arranged.

What waiting lines? This reform doesn't introduce rationing, which is a proven way to cut costs and one of the reasons single-payer would be preferable to this POS. This reform fails to address the underlying pathologies in the current American healthcare system in any significant way, whilst putting the federal government on the hook for a much larger percentage of the skyrocketing medical costs in the United States. It's terrible.

[Pekka]

The challenge is to keep the waiting lines in order and so that you get enough time with a doctor, but this can be arranged.

What waiting lines? This reform doesn't introduce rationing, which is a proven way to cut costs and one of the reasons single-payer would be preferable to this POS. This reform fails to address the underlying pathologies in the current American healthcare system in any significant way, whilst putting the federal government on the hook for a much larger percentage of the skyrocketing medical costs in the United States. It's terrible.

It isn't about rationing in any other system as far as I know either. Of course you have limited time, I don't think you call a doctor and say you're coming for a visit and then spend 7 hours there, talking about problems. Diagnosis is done the same way, and takes the same time. I don't know what the current problems in US system are though, so I have no idea.

But I do know that the US spends way more money on health care and gets less bang for their buck versus what we spend and get. I don't know where all that money goes in your system. We have this image that we spend a lot per citizen, whereas US doesn't, but it is in fact quite the opposite. Making it more effective seems to be one of the issues. You already spend the money, so time for some results, yes?

[Hauldren Collider]

Guys...denying coverage to people who don't have something on their plan isn't evil. Trying to pull a profit isn't evil. If they didn't try to pull a profit they'd clearly go out of business, then no one would have healthcare insurance. Your histrionics over ZOMFG SOMEONE GOT A RAW DEAL IN LIFE AND THAT'S SO UNFAIR BAWWW is pathetic.

[DinoDoc]

If anyone agrees with the Republican view that health care reform should be repealed then check out this video from yesterday.

You do realize it was the parents stupidity that caused that situation, right?

[Hauldren Collider]

Isn't it the government's job to bail out stupid people when they do stupid ****? Seriously what kind of third-world country are we?

[giblets]

Guys...denying coverage to people who don't have something on their plan isn't evil. Trying to pull a profit isn't evil. If they didn't try to pull a profit they'd clearly go out of business, then no one would have healthcare insurance. Your histrionics over ZOMFG SOMEONE GOT A RAW DEAL IN LIFE AND THAT'S SO UNFAIR BAWWW is pathetic.

It isn't the insurance company itself that is evil but rather the system as a whole. Babies should not be punished for choosing to have parents that can't afford heart surgery.

[Kidlicious]

Guys...denying coverage to people who don't have something on their plan isn't evil. Trying to pull a profit isn't evil. If they didn't try to pull a profit they'd clearly go out of business, then no one would have healthcare insurance. Your histrionics over ZOMFG SOMEONE GOT A RAW DEAL IN LIFE AND THAT'S SO UNFAIR BAWWW is pathetic.

It seems that your moral code is making money = good, and making sacrifices = evil.

[Kidlicious]

But I do know that the US spends way more money on health care and gets less bang for their buck versus what we spend and get. I don't know where all that money goes in your system. We have this image that we spend a lot per citizen, whereas US doesn't, but it is in fact quite the opposite. Making it more effective seems to be one of the issues. You already spend the money, so time for some results, yes?

A lot of it goes into the pockets of wealthy people who don't really deserve that much, but a lot of it is inefficiency. Insurance is so high that people won't pay for it, which makes premiums increase even more. People have to be forced to pay for it and costs have to be reduced. There's no going forward the way things are.

[Hauldren Collider]

It seems that your moral code is making money = good, and making sacrifices = evil.

Yep. Did you read what I said? Going out of business serves fewer people than making a profit through reasonable business practices, thereby denying coverage to some.

[Guynemer]

What waiting lines? This reform doesn't introduce rationing, which is a proven way to cut costs and one of the reasons single-payer would be preferable to this POS. This reform fails to address the underlying pathologies in the current American healthcare system in any significant way, whilst putting the federal government on the hook for a much larger percentage of the skyrocketing medical costs in the United States. It's terrible.

QFMFT. Really, not much more to say.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I guess you missed the thread I created not too long ago, where I lashed out at the Democratic attorney general in Louisiana for his homophobic actions. You also missed over the years in threads where I did not have kind words to say about President Clinton for bowing to Republican Congress by allowing passage of Defense of Marriage Act and "don't ask, don't tell."

you ****ing dip****

Guilty as charged. I try to stay away from the "Look at me! I am too a victim and going to whine like a b1tch threads."

That caveat being given, the above restates the assertion I previously attributed you. That being, you cast the GOP as inherently the problem and that the, dare I say, 'virtuous' Dems simply have moments of weakness in bowing to the pressures of the great unwashed troglodytic masses.

Instead my previous statement was that significant portions of the Dem base and especially the base that turned out for Obama are the problem, yet no blame seems to accrue those homophobic bastards.

[MrFun]

Guilty as charged. I try to stay away from the "Look at me! I am too a victim and going to whine like a b1tch threads."

Well I'm sorry to hear that you think civil rights and freedom are not important issues.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Well I'm sorry to hear that you think civil rights and freedom are not important issues.

Unsurprisingly whoosh. Pendantic passive agressive lingo I hear all the time from 9 year old girls.

Now go to your room and shut up.

[Drake Tungsten]

The individual mandate may be unenforceable...

The penalty applies to any period the individual does not maintain minimum essential coverage and is determined monthly. The penalty is assessed through the Code and accounted for as an additional amount of Federal tax owed. However, it is not subject to the enforcement provisions of subtitle F of the Code. The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty. Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Yzg5NmFlNDdiNTljYmQ5MDBhNmE5ODc0ZmYzMmJhZGU

Awesome news for me, bad news for anyone who still thought this healthcare reform would work.

[Elok]

It seems that your moral code is making money = good, and making sacrifices = evil.

While I wouldn't take it as far as he does, some measure of practicality is needed. I opposed this law on the very simple grounds that, as bad as these stories may be, they do not constitute anything like an existential threat to America or the American way of life. Given our already-atrocious national debt, we should not be spending large sums of money on anything less than that. We need to stop running from the freight train very soon--we should have stopped running a decade ago, if not before--and adding yet more entitlements is just throwing coal in the boiler. I don't really understand the ins and outs of the health care industry, but I don't need to.