We want to move Elizabeth the Longbow to the hill N of the Dyes (after the workers finish the roads).
That forces their stack onto the Dyes.
mh
The main Templar stack has moved 1SW towards Something Fishy, still in jungle. That must be their target.
Note that the short way to the city puts them on level ground in 2 turns, but they could opt to go hill-hill-jungle. However, I imagine that even with the hill bonus a few cats + knights will do a number on them.
No other Templar moves as far as I can tell, but they still have 7hrs on their portion.
EDIT: well I'm not the general but time to start thinking about this. Sorry if this is repeating part/all of a current plan.
Since SF is only 1 archer right now, we need to move the pikes in Pink Dot towards SF starting our next turn to prevent the few 2-movers from attacking the city on T153.
Assuming we clear the 2 units on the hill by Jericho on our next turn, we can finish the road and move Medic Godiva to Pink Dot, which will allow the three wounded knights/HA 1SW to heal to full on the 152-153 interturn.
Need to decide what to do with the workers on the hill next to their stack, both the road and chop have 1 turn remaining. My rec is to finish the road but NOT the chop, move Elizabeth onto the hill and the other units off, see if Templars take the bait of the worker. Liz will be strength 13.2 up there, would almost certainly take out 1 unit and maybe 2, and the Templars already proved once that they are dumb enough to try
Assuming the battle will be T153, and no whipping of more units, we will have 3 cats (including the one due in 2T in SF) followed by 4 knights, an elephant, 4 horse archers, plus 2 pikes and a longbow for cleaning up remainders. That should win most battles if it's on open ground and will surely flank their cats. On hill is a little dicier but I think we would still come out on top.
One note on the cat in SF - will be at 37/50 next turn. If templars move onto the hill mine and that citizen goes to a coast, we will get 11hpt (9 + 2 from forge) and come up just short. Don't want to whip, so we should change that guy to an engineer.
EDIT again: Sorry, presumably the templars will be on the hill T152, then on the flatland/last hill before jungle T153, given the turn order that means we hit them T154. In that case the concern about finishing the cat in SF is unwarranted. Especially since Templars may move onto the forested hill 2NE of SF anyways as the attack path is not any longer. Note that they will see our "surprise" in store for them then.
Last edited by timmy827; June 5, 2009 at 00:01.
We want to move Elizabeth the Longbow to the hill N of the Dyes (after the workers finish the roads).
That forces their stack onto the Dyes.
mh
What units will be left on the hill 2NE of Something Fishy then? They can move there as well without delaying their attack, perhaps the pikes in Pink Dot should be moved to that hill? Yes we already have units there, but none that get defensive boni.
I agree with Timmy's plan of roading with one of the workers but fleeing with the other one. Putting the longbow in the mined hill sounds like a plan too. We don't want to show all of our units to templars though. Though I think we should reinforce the knight-HA stack by 1 unit. The healthy troops in the main stack plus the two pikes from Pink I'd move onto the hill 1N of the marble. The unhealthy 2-movers are OK healing where they are.
The 3 workers building the desert road I think could complete the road next turn if there is cover from an elephant and a maceman out of Jericho. That would allow our super-medic chariot to head down to SF. But it's not super-critical to build that road this turn if we don't want to.
I don't think we can afford to battle the xbow+axe though this turn. Our only healthy knight has 65% odds and is needed in the south. What I'd do is set up for a later hit, using the knight that is being produced from Cape Town right now. Also Betty Hur the chariot is a good unit to attack that stack because she can whack the axeman after the xbow is killed/wounded, but Betty needs to move next turn to be able to hit it.
I think our northern stack is too cat-heavy and that we can afford to move at least 2 of them down south.
I think we should concede the grass mine hill to Templars.
If we cover both hills with units, I don't think they will step onto the dyes, rather - noticing that Liz has moved onto the grass hill - they will move back 1NE into the jungle, and we get stuck in another unit shuffling stalemate.
We have enough units to cover SF from their 2 movers, and if we keep our main army hidden, we might buy a turn of healing (not sure about this though) for our wounded 2 movers before Templars moves onto the marble to attack SF. Alternatively, we may feel we have the units to smash them on the grass hill, but I'll leave analysis to General sunrise
They might realise this is a trap anyway and retreat, but we have to take a small risk to encourage them to take a big (and fatal) risk.
Hmm, that's quite a cunning idea. I like it!
I think we should move a small (token) defense on the two hills N and NE of the marble. That might make them move on flat land or make them loose some units clearing the hill. But the force shouldn't be so large that we scare them away. If they move onto the hill N of the Dyes, will they be able to see our hidden forces? We could try to give them the impression they have us scrambling for defense of SF by moving a pike 2N of SF and make it seem he can't reach SF in one turn.
I think we should reinforce SF with part of our units, and leave the rest in the fog. Because if we make it too inviting, they might think it's a trap.
Better to have them think we've put in all the units we can spare.
My take:
We have to make SF look vulnerable in order to get them to commit to an attack. The trick is going to be making it look like we are scrambling to defend it while we keep the majority of our army out of sight.
I think we need the Longbow on the forest hill along with a Pike from PD. We need to road the hill, but I do think we should consider finishing the chop. If we finish the chop, we can then empty that hill next turn - pull all our units back into SF - without risking Templars deciding to park their stack on that hill.
We probably want to be seen to upgarde the Archer in SF to a Longbow - let them think we need the extra defense - once they can see the city.
We might want to consider rushing a Maceman or an injured knight into the city as well to encourage them to see it as vulnerable.
It would be really nice to be able to clear that Jungle N of SF, but I don't think that's possible without exposing ourselves.
Ok, here is what I would do:
1) Swap Pink Dot to a knight this turn.
2) Road and chop the grassland forest our two workers are currently on.
3) Move the three desert workers to the forest Elizabeth is currently in and chop it.
4) Let the Templars take the mined grassland hill...if we block both hills I think they'll be too scared and leave.
5) Start of T153 - cat completes and knight completes. Hit the Templar stack on the grassland hill with three cats and then 5 knights and an elephant.
This plan will definitely cost us three cats, and we won't have 90% odds in every battle, but I personally think if we block every hill tile and try to force the Templars to flat land they'll just park themselves in the forest and tie our troops down.
Sunrise - that's not enough hammers for the knight on T153. The first chop only gets 24 hammers because it is outside the BFC. Added to the other chop and that's 54 hammers (we got no overflow from the last build). That's 3 turns of production not 2 no matter which tiles we work.
Hmm....perhaps a mace then? A mace should still get a favorable battle versus the horse archer I think.Originally Posted by sooooo
EDIT: But of course a mace would be too far away....
We don't have to hit them on the grass hill if we feel 1 turn will make a positive difference to our chances. If we lure them there, but cover SF from a mounted attack, then they might go onto the flatland, or try to go hill-jungle (as timmy wrote) to strike at SF.
Of course there's a chance they'll retreat, but if they see their prize greed & revenge might just be their undoing. If they retreat, we'll lose a mine and a road to pillaging, but that seems a reasonable price to me.
Can we get a knight at Pink Dot in three turns with the chops? If so then we can do:
1) Swap Pink Dot to a knight this turn, T151.
2) T152, Road and chop the grassland forest our two workers are currently on.
3) and...Move the three desert workers to the forest Elizabeth is currently in and chop it.
4) and...move everything except one archer out of Pink Dot and towards Something Fishy
5) and...let the Templars take the mined grassland hill...if we block both hills I think they'll be too scared and leave.
6) T153, cat completes
7) and...move one pike and one archer into Something Fishy
8) and...Templars can take the other mined grassland hill 2N1E of Something Fishy
9) T154, knight completes in Pink Dot
10) and...attack with 3 cats, knights, and elephant.
If you want it on turn 154, then you only need 2 chops.
But is all of this really necessary? Just to get one knight a few turns earlier? I was hoping to use those forests for a forge and other buildings.
I mean, if we attack on T154 then we can attack with a mace that we've just drafted from SF instead.
I think the issue with finishing the knight quickly is so we can go ahead and lend our horses to Team Banana.
My way of thinking is I'd rather get the knights out sooner, attack sooner, and loose fewer units at the cost of the forests. But there are admittedly 2 alternatives:
1) Slave out units instead, which the team has vetoed because it's too damaging to our long-term success.
2) Build units conventionally. This works, because we'll out-produce Templars, but it also ties our units up for many turns.
Lets just keep in mind that as soon as that Templar stack dies our surviving units (knights, HAs, elephant, and pikes) get to move forward to Jericho and then into the Templar lands.
Last edited by sunrise089; June 5, 2009 at 15:50.
I agree Sunrise, let's keep moving while Templar are still reeling from our previous blow.
Imperio's Galley is no longer visible in Cichen Itza, but there seem to be the same number of units there.
OK, if it's necessary to double-chop out a knight then be my guest.
Make sure the city's tiles are set to produce the knight at the beginning of T154, since we are giving horses back that turn.
Logged in to take a quick look at the new turn. Pink is still on a cat, but the big news is that Imperio has Gunpowder. Meh.
Meh, that's OK. At least they weren't researching astronomy. They can't exactly go a-drafting like we can because they don't even have drama. Plus their capital is a monster so if they go from bureaucracy to nationalism then they lose a lot of research power.
No, the biggest problem of them having gunpowder is that they also have elephants. So if they make musket stacks we can't counter them with knight stacks. We can of course counter them with Oromo stacks as soon as we get the tech ourselves.
Turn 152
Well this was the worst turn of my time as a turnplayer
City Report:
*Airstrip 1 - Bank due in 9.
*Pink Dot - Cat due in 2
*China Beach - Knight due in 6. The sign says to whip this this turn, but I've not done so yet in case that is a mistake.
*Cape Town - Knight complete in 1.
*Something Fishy - Cat due in 1.
*Green Acres - Globe Theater due in 1!
*Mellow Yellow - Courthouse due in 58.
*Saxon the Beach - Barracks due in 2 turns.
*Bluebell Woods - Taj due in 14 before chops.
*Red Herring - Library due in 12.
*Upper Burgundy - Granary due in 2 while working the rice tile.
*Frozen Clams - Granary due in 52.
Worker Report:
*Since I forgot to change Pink Dot to a Knight, Soooo gets his wish and the plains forest sticks around.
*The two workers at Pink Dot finish chopping and roading the grassland hill. I think it's important to deny Templars a forested hill to park their stack in.
*The three workers working on the desert road between Pink Dot and Jericho finished the road. They're being covered by an elephant and mace.
Domestic Military Composition Report:
*Cape Town garrison - 2 elephants, 2 pikes, 1 axe, 4 archers.
*Jericho garrison - 3 maces, 1 pike, 1 cat.
*Guarding workers outside Jericho - 1 elephant, 1 mace.
*Northern army - 2 elephants, 6 maces, 8 catapults.
*Pink Dot garrison - 1 archer.
*Southern army - 4 knights, 1 elephant, 6 horse archers, 2 cats, 1 longbow, 2 pikes, 1 chariot, 1 archer.
*Covering Red Herring - 1 longbow, 1 warrior (!)
Enemy Military Composition Report:
*Cape Town opposing force - 10 strength-8 units, 4 horse archers, 3 pikes, 6 longbows, 1 pike, and 11 cats, 1 galley.
*Pink Dot opposing force - 2 maces, 2 crossbows, 1 horse archer, 1 sword, 3 cats, 3 chariots, 1 spear, 1 Quechua.
*Central garrison - 1 crossbow, 1 axeman.
*Constantinople garrison (as of T150) - 1 mace, 1 crossbow, 3 longbows, 1 cat, 1 Quechua.
Military Action Report:
*Lots to talk about:
*Camilla the horse archer is going to die. I was typing to Imperio and I accidentally moved out of the text box, so my typed characters moved Camilla 2E. I'm very sorry about this.Screenshot:Spoiler:
*Imperio is roading the disputed tile between Chichen and Cape Town. I moved Betty Hur out of Upper Burgundy and in position to kill the worker next turn. Normally I'd take a chariot death to kill a worker with a worker turn invested any day, but I can see the team vetoing it since we're currently discussing peace with Imperio. Of course roading the tile is certainly a provocative act as well.
*The Good Ship Lollipop moved 1N and is now visible to Imperio. That's because I believe Imperio was in position to move their galley onto the tile the Trireme is on later this turn, and could have landed 2 units outside Red Herring we may not have been able to defend against. Screenshot:Spoiler:
Spy Report:
*No spies
Questions and notes:
*Imperio has passed Banana again in score.
*Obviously Jericho is defended too lightly this turn, but I assume Templars don't have 3 workers ready to road just to try a 55/45 attack with a crossbow on the top defender. The elephant will move back into the city next turn.
*So my plan in the south is pretty much dead. Therefore how about we kill the Templar stack on T155. China Beach and Cape Town will both finish knights this turn, and both knights can reach the Templar stack during T155. The only thing needed is for Pink Dot to finish its Cat by T154 to get it in position. I've configured the city to do so, but had to move of the cottages. Alternately we can chop the plains forest next turn and work the commerce tiles this turn. Or we can decide neither is worthwhile and attack on T156 instead. Thoughts?
Last edited by sunrise089; June 6, 2009 at 18:24.
@sunrise - I can't see the first screenshot; where was Camilla before her escapade?
She was on the hill with the two workers.
A screenshot of Camilla and the situation in the south:
I'm not sure templars will actually kill her. They will probably think it is a trap. They only have one spearman and they saw us move our wounded horse archers past their mini-stack.
In other news, Pink Dot pops its borders next turn. Replies to your questions:
Pink Dot: Keep working the production tiles to get the cat a turn earlier.
China Beach: We can delay the whip until next turn to get an extra 6 gold or we can whip it this turn to allow the use of the knight a turn earlier.
Need to decide on new builds for Something Fishy, Green Acres and Cape Town for next turn and the turn after we will need new builds at Saxon and Pink Dot. I'm thinking we'll triple-whip a settler at Mellow Yellow after the city has drafted itself, so no need for a settler from them.
Something Fishy: Suggest an islamic missionary next for Pink Dot
Pink Dot: Suggest starting a forge after it's catapult is done.
Cape Town: I'd go for a forge here and use the workers from the desert road to chop the 2 forests outside the BFC.
Green Acres: As we draft the city down it will have very little production (eventually just 1 hpt). But we'll get 5 overflow from the globe and for a while will work some hammer tiles such as the wines and the grass mine. So we can probably get something cheap in a semi-reasonable time. I think I'd go for a missionary since it will always be useful and is one of the cheapest options.
Saxon: Since we're not running the science slider, a forge before library makes more sense.
Soooo,
If we whip the knight this turn in China Beach we should work the production tiles in Pink Dot, otherwise we only need the cat in three turns.
OK, that clinches it - we whip China Beach this turn and go for the production tile in Pink Dot. I'll go do that now and finish the turn.
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