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    self biased's Avatar
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    promotions for siege weapons (and in general)

    what's the best combination? i started off by just cranking up as much city attack as i could muster, but after discovering the wonder that is first strike while playing as the chinese, i've come to rethink things.

    anyone have any thoughts?
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    A good question. I'm just starting to get back into Civ4 after years of not playing so I'd like to know as well.
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    The best promotion is the one they will need so it's best not to promote them till you know what they'll be doing.

    City raider if they'll be attacking cities. Barrage if they'll be used in defense against an enemy SOD.
    Going up he first strike promotion path can have some benefit but has some shortcomings. Getting enough strike promotions to reduce colateral damage is meaningless since they're already immune to it. Most mounted units have bonuses against seige units so they will be defending or attacking so the first strike isn't useful there. But if you know you'll just be fighting axes and spears then first strike can be sweet.

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    Even attacking cities, with catapults, I usually go with barrage on the first few then go to city raider once the retreat odds increase and start approaching 50%. That makes sense to me intuitively, but I don't know the game mechanics well enough to know if it really works better than just CR on them all.
    The undeserving maintain power by promoting hysteria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rah View Post
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    ... City raider if they'll be attacking cities. Barrage if they'll be used in defense against an enemy SOD. ...
    This.
    However I will hit a city with Barrage Siege initially to wreak some collateral damage on the defenders.
    And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

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    I used to go straight barrage, but now I combo city raider with barrage.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    City Raider, followed by Accuracy (reduce defenses faster) or more City Raider. Except for those for use in MY territory, which get First Strike & Barrage

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    Quote Originally Posted by chequita guevara View Post
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    I used to go straight barrage, but now I combo city raider with barrage.
    It's better to just keep 2 different sets of cats (or rather don't promote until needed). That way each unit is better when needed instead of just being generall purpose and generally crappy.

    One thing that is overlooked is that acuracy cats are necessary to beat hte snot out of those cities with walls. When casttles come around you generally need about 10 accuracy trebs just to bombard them down in a reasonable time frame.
    You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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    rah's Avatar
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    Especially now that the AI whips so much better. Those extra turns to bring the defense down usually means a few extra defenders and a few extra turns to fortify those units that arrived recently. But I still seem to ignore the acuracy promo and just bring a few more seige units.

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    Cats get barrage + accuracy, trebs city raider. A treb with CR II or III has a good chance of beating any medieval or earlier defender. Cats w/ accuracy get the walls down quick and are much cheaper.
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    self biased's Avatar
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    what about gunpowder units with Drill?
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    rah's Avatar
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    Again, it depends on the unit and how you expect to use it.

    Orama warriors, sweet. After drill II and mounted I just keep loading up on drills. The pluses that add on on the higher levels make unstopable units. Which just get better as they're upgraded.

    If the unit is just going to sit in a city, there are better promotions.

    I'm appreciating drill more these days.

    But if your opponent is mostly mounted units.......drill is minimized somewhat.

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    yeah. i had a case of drill being more useful versus macemen (on riflemen as the chinese). half a dozen of them held off some obscene amount of troops. i want to say 20+, but that's a figure out of my ass.
    I wasn't born with enough middle fingers.
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    I'm loving when my melee units get the automatic drill promotion from the horde of swordsman event.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    rah's Avatar
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    I had one game where i got the free pinch promotion, auto drill, extra sharp axes. All I was missing was the free cover.

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    As others said, you don't want a "stock" promotion path for all your siege units. I typically strive for about 25-30% of my siege stack to have accuracy, for the reason mentioned above. Walls and castles make it take forever to knock the city defense down without accuracy. The rest of the stack is generally a mix of CR and barrage, weighted based on the type of battle I expect. The purpose of CR siege, especially in the cat era, is to damage the top defender. I know it's good practice, but I can never make myself save promotions as a rule (though I will do it in certain situations). I don't like drill on siege (but love it generally speaking) because drill is all about survivability, a low priority for siege units. It's nice when they survive, but not as necessary as, say, my macemen surviving to reach CRIII.
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    What's "enemy SOD"?
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    stack of doom (composed of a large number of units)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krill View Post
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    It's better to just keep 2 different sets of cats (or rather don't promote until needed).


    Now, I do not promote my cats until I know what they are going to be doing. Nothing worse than having a bunch of CR cats, and all of a sudden you have to defend against a SOD.
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    Always good for the 'instant repair' feature too.
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  22. #22
    rah's Avatar
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    Hmm the instant repair is only needed if they're attacked. (since they're immune to colateral damage)
    If they are in danger of being attacked I want them promoted to increase their odds of survival. (first strike or other advantage promo)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rah View Post
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    Hmm the instant repair is only needed if they're attacked. (since they're immune to colateral damage)
    If they are in danger of being attacked I want them promoted to increase their odds of survival. (first strike or other advantage promo)
    True enough. And at that point, you KNOW what promotion you want
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    rah's Avatar
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    There is that rare event where a cat was so successful on a previous attack that it's still at 3.8 or above and earned a promotion. YOu're thinking should I promote or wait for another attack. I usually wuss out and promote before figureing that extra cr promo will help it's survival.

    While cats are made to be used and destroyed, they are usually the limiting factor when you have to pause during an invasion.

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