Alternative ai

Dale · January 16, 2001, 16:42

Got a frog in ya throat Rich?

BTW, expect v2.3 (maybe v3.0 if I re-write the lot) after the weekend. I'm starting to code the full AI diplo-handling routines. In previous versions I left it to the program to handle the considerations, but now I've got the mod-skeleton I'm going to add them in.

The AI diplo-handling routines will be the ones that look at the current position and force a proposal/response based on that analysis.

EG. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmm, nice border-city. I'll extort that." Player[a] sends player[b] a request_give_city. Player[b] looks at the proposal and says "Hang on a second, he receives THIS bonus, and I receive THIS bonus. My bonus is less so I'll counter-request." Player[b] sends player[a] a counter-request for GOLD equalling value of CITY. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmmm...... I don't have much gold left so NO SALE!" and refuses counter-proposal. BTW, I got this routine running. It seemed like the easiest to do. Obviously, if player[b] receives a 'gift' proposal it's gunna say "Cool! Free stuff!" and accept.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Dale · January 16, 2001, 16:42

Got a frog in ya throat Rich?

BTW, expect v2.3 (maybe v3.0 if I re-write the lot) after the weekend. I'm starting to code the full AI diplo-handling routines. In previous versions I left it to the program to handle the considerations, but now I've got the mod-skeleton I'm going to add them in.

The AI diplo-handling routines will be the ones that look at the current position and force a proposal/response based on that analysis.

EG. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmm, nice border-city. I'll extort that." Player[a] sends player[b] a request_give_city. Player[b] looks at the proposal and says "Hang on a second, he receives THIS bonus, and I receive THIS bonus. My bonus is less so I'll counter-request." Player[b] sends player[a] a counter-request for GOLD equalling value of CITY. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmmm...... I don't have much gold left so NO SALE!" and refuses counter-proposal. BTW, I got this routine running. It seemed like the easiest to do. Obviously, if player[b] receives a 'gift' proposal it's gunna say "Cool! Free stuff!" and accept.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Martina · January 16, 2001, 17:07

quote:

Originally posted by Dale on 01-15-2001 07:59 PM
I've found the problem. I used a "Consider" statement when I should've used a "Change" statement. Will fix for version 2.3

Could you please let us know the bugfix for this i.e. where we need to replace the "consider" statement with the "change" statement ? I feel I can change this on my own in the 2.2 version (so no publishing of the bugfix version necessary) but I would need to know where....

Thank you!
Martina
[This message has been edited by Martina (edited January 16, 2001).]

Martina · January 16, 2001, 17:07

quote:

Originally posted by Dale on 01-15-2001 07:59 PM
I've found the problem. I used a "Consider" statement when I should've used a "Change" statement. Will fix for version 2.3

Could you please let us know the bugfix for this i.e. where we need to replace the "consider" statement with the "change" statement ? I feel I can change this on my own in the 2.2 version (so no publishing of the bugfix version necessary) but I would need to know where....

Thank you!
Martina
[This message has been edited by Martina (edited January 16, 2001).]

Kinjiru · January 16, 2001, 17:56

One suggestion I would make is to take a look at the while Gift offer. Getting a free city can be a VERY bad thing.

In SMAC you could cripple the AI by giving faction A a city of yours that is about to be overrun by faction B. Faction B is going to take that city, even if they are allied with faction A. You could keep doing this and always keep everyone fighting.

If it is possible, I would suggest that the AI consider the diplomatic status outcome for accepting a free city. If the sender is at war with a faction that shares a border with the gift city, then the AI should probably turn down the free city offer.

I have no idea what is possible through modifying the text files, so if this is too complex to implement, no big deal. It would be good to close that kind of loophole though.

Kinjiru · January 16, 2001, 17:56

One suggestion I would make is to take a look at the while Gift offer. Getting a free city can be a VERY bad thing.

In SMAC you could cripple the AI by giving faction A a city of yours that is about to be overrun by faction B. Faction B is going to take that city, even if they are allied with faction A. You could keep doing this and always keep everyone fighting.

If it is possible, I would suggest that the AI consider the diplomatic status outcome for accepting a free city. If the sender is at war with a faction that shares a border with the gift city, then the AI should probably turn down the free city offer.

I have no idea what is possible through modifying the text files, so if this is too complex to implement, no big deal. It would be good to close that kind of loophole though.

Dale · January 16, 2001, 21:32

Martina:

The AI wasn't changing it's diplomatic strategy. It considered it but didn't change it. Therefore, in the 'BeginTurn' routine you need to change all the ConsiderDiplomaticState's to ChangeDiplomaticState.

Kinjiru:

At lunch I drew up some flowcharts to map the flow of diplomatic proposals and what to check (on paper of course). Pity I got beetroot juice all over it.

Anyways, I thought of just that problem you mentioned. I figure it could be overcome if CityToExtort is within 10 squares of OwnCity which would make the city a border-city. That way, at least it has a fighting chance of getting defense there quickly. If you take into account the reality of supply problems, you don't want to accept a city that is too far from your borders, or on another island totally. I think this simple measure could simulate that. Any suggestions anyone?

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Dale · January 16, 2001, 21:32

Martina:

The AI wasn't changing it's diplomatic strategy. It considered it but didn't change it. Therefore, in the 'BeginTurn' routine you need to change all the ConsiderDiplomaticState's to ChangeDiplomaticState.

Kinjiru:

At lunch I drew up some flowcharts to map the flow of diplomatic proposals and what to check (on paper of course). Pity I got beetroot juice all over it.

Anyways, I thought of just that problem you mentioned. I figure it could be overcome if CityToExtort is within 10 squares of OwnCity which would make the city a border-city. That way, at least it has a fighting chance of getting defense there quickly. If you take into account the reality of supply problems, you don't want to accept a city that is too far from your borders, or on another island totally. I think this simple measure could simulate that. Any suggestions anyone?

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Alpha Wolf · January 17, 2001, 00:23

Nasty cough you have there Omni....

The new design for your website is substantially better.

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History is written by the victor.

Alpha Wolf · January 17, 2001, 00:23

Nasty cough you have there Omni....

The new design for your website is substantially better.

------------------
History is written by the victor.

Martina · January 17, 2001, 02:21

quote:

Originally posted by Dale on 01-16-2001 09:32 PM
Therefore, in the 'BeginTurn' routine you need to change all the ConsiderDiplomaticState's to ChangeDiplomaticState.

Thanks a lot, Dale! I did exactly that (in the 'BeginTurn' routine, changed from 'ConsiderDiplomaticState to ChangeDiplomaticState in total 3 times), however still I can get each and every city I request from others (independent from the tonality of my request).

Did I miss something ?

Martina

Martina · January 17, 2001, 02:21

quote:

Originally posted by Dale on 01-16-2001 09:32 PM
Therefore, in the 'BeginTurn' routine you need to change all the ConsiderDiplomaticState's to ChangeDiplomaticState.

Thanks a lot, Dale! I did exactly that (in the 'BeginTurn' routine, changed from 'ConsiderDiplomaticState to ChangeDiplomaticState in total 3 times), however still I can get each and every city I request from others (independent from the tonality of my request).

Did I miss something ?

Martina

Changmai Beagle · January 17, 2001, 22:35

Dale, I'm having some trouble with your mod. I'm getting an array out of bounds slic error as soon as I startup. I'm also running Frenzy v1.03. Maybe I'll just wait until v. 3.0 and re-try. I unzipped into install, but the files were in a 'default' folder, so I copied them over their namesakes down a couple of levels. Maybe I missed something.

P.S. Is there a way I can set this up with Frenzy as a scenario, and leave the base system alone?

Changmai Beagle · January 17, 2001, 22:35

Dale, I'm having some trouble with your mod. I'm getting an array out of bounds slic error as soon as I startup. I'm also running Frenzy v1.03. Maybe I'll just wait until v. 3.0 and re-try. I unzipped into install, but the files were in a 'default' folder, so I copied them over their namesakes down a couple of levels. Maybe I missed something.

P.S. Is there a way I can set this up with Frenzy as a scenario, and leave the base system alone?

Dale · January 18, 2001, 01:04

To those who have errors with my diplomacy mod, sorry bout that. Here's my suggestion. Instead of me spending time bug-fixing v2.2, I'll continue with v3.0. I now have the AI's swapping maps, advances and peace-treaties. Alliances are a little more complex to work out. I'm basing alliances on a combined overall rating of the two civs, whether they're at war or desire war with the same civs, and regard is fairly high. Now to get that part of the script running.

So question for you guys:

Do ya want me to bug-fix or continue till I get a v3.0 alpha for you to play with?

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Dale · January 18, 2001, 01:04

To those who have errors with my diplomacy mod, sorry bout that. Here's my suggestion. Instead of me spending time bug-fixing v2.2, I'll continue with v3.0. I now have the AI's swapping maps, advances and peace-treaties. Alliances are a little more complex to work out. I'm basing alliances on a combined overall rating of the two civs, whether they're at war or desire war with the same civs, and regard is fairly high. Now to get that part of the script running.

So question for you guys:

Do ya want me to bug-fix or continue till I get a v3.0 alpha for you to play with?

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Alpha Wolf · January 18, 2001, 01:53

i'm not much for temp fixes, so my vote is 3.0

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History is written by the victor.

Alpha Wolf · January 18, 2001, 01:53

i'm not much for temp fixes, so my vote is 3.0

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History is written by the victor.

Tjoepie · January 18, 2001, 05:19

Same for me , ... and keep up the good work Dale !

Thanks!

Tjoepie · January 18, 2001, 05:19

Same for me , ... and keep up the good work Dale !

Thanks!

Calphor · January 18, 2001, 13:29

The advance for gold bug is part of the game not the diplomod. Hopefully it's something that can be addressed by future patches.

Thanks for the great work on the mods everyone!

Calphor · January 18, 2001, 13:29

The advance for gold bug is part of the game not the diplomod. Hopefully it's something that can be addressed by future patches.

Thanks for the great work on the mods everyone!

Dale · January 18, 2001, 19:24

Yeah, the advance for gold exchange ain't my bug.

But the "array out of index" bug is. I know what it is now. It's when the "player[DIP_civx]" variable goes out of the amount actually there. Basically, the script trys to make a call to a player number that isn't there. I did a quick test on my machine and found that changing:

DIP_NumOfPlayers = Preference("NumPlayers") + 5;

TO

DIP_NumOfPlayers = Preference("NumPlayers");

fixed the problem. Of course, if you're in a saved game you need to reload SLIC (either through the chat dialog or the cheat menu).

Just on version 3.0, I had an interesting test last night. Started a hard - small map game (so contact is made quickly). Found the Greeks about turn 5. They immediately demanded my capital. Over the next ten turns they demanded my capital 3 times, and on the last one threatened war. I rejected all of them, they declared war and sent their army at me (which consisted of a hoplite and a warrior). He beat me as I only had a warrior in my captial. The other was getting ruins. This was all within 30 turns. So how's that folks?

I just don't know if it was an isolated incident.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Dale · January 18, 2001, 19:24

Yeah, the advance for gold exchange ain't my bug.

But the "array out of index" bug is. I know what it is now. It's when the "player[DIP_civx]" variable goes out of the amount actually there. Basically, the script trys to make a call to a player number that isn't there. I did a quick test on my machine and found that changing:

DIP_NumOfPlayers = Preference("NumPlayers") + 5;

TO

DIP_NumOfPlayers = Preference("NumPlayers");

fixed the problem. Of course, if you're in a saved game you need to reload SLIC (either through the chat dialog or the cheat menu).

Just on version 3.0, I had an interesting test last night. Started a hard - small map game (so contact is made quickly). Found the Greeks about turn 5. They immediately demanded my capital. Over the next ten turns they demanded my capital 3 times, and on the last one threatened war. I rejected all of them, they declared war and sent their army at me (which consisted of a hoplite and a warrior). He beat me as I only had a warrior in my captial. The other was getting ruins. This was all within 30 turns. So how's that folks?

I just don't know if it was an isolated incident.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Changmai Beagle · January 18, 2001, 20:16

I'll probably wait until version 3.0 so that's my vote. (But just in case - in which files would I change the numplayers and the considerdiplo.... statements?)
P.S Thanks for all the effort. Sounds good and I look forward.
P.P.S It might be a while before you see any mods from me, being a beagle of little programming ability. For example. I was trying to do a bit of tweaking the other day and couldn't figure out why I was crashing. Then I realized I had left Net Nanny on and she had edited out all the "naughty bits", like "bomb_cabinet".

Changmai Beagle · January 18, 2001, 20:16

I'll probably wait until version 3.0 so that's my vote. (But just in case - in which files would I change the numplayers and the considerdiplo.... statements?)
P.S Thanks for all the effort. Sounds good and I look forward.
P.P.S It might be a while before you see any mods from me, being a beagle of little programming ability. For example. I was trying to do a bit of tweaking the other day and couldn't figure out why I was crashing. Then I realized I had left Net Nanny on and she had edited out all the "naughty bits", like "bomb_cabinet".

Dale · January 18, 2001, 20:51

quote:

Originally posted by Changmai Beagle on 01-18-2001 08:16 PM
I'll probably wait until version 3.0 so that's my vote. (But just in case - in which files would I change the numplayers and the considerdiplo.... statements?)

diplomod.slc

quote:

P.S Thanks for all the effort. Sounds good and I look forward.

No problemo.

quote:

P.P.S It might be a while before you see any mods from me, being a beagle of little programming ability. For example. I was trying to do a bit of tweaking the other day and couldn't figure out why I was crashing. Then I realized I had left Net Nanny on and she had edited out all the "naughty bits", like "bomb_cabinet".

It'll do that. haha.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Dale · January 18, 2001, 20:51

quote:

Originally posted by Changmai Beagle on 01-18-2001 08:16 PM
I'll probably wait until version 3.0 so that's my vote. (But just in case - in which files would I change the numplayers and the considerdiplo.... statements?)

diplomod.slc

quote:

P.S Thanks for all the effort. Sounds good and I look forward.

No problemo.

quote:

P.P.S It might be a while before you see any mods from me, being a beagle of little programming ability. For example. I was trying to do a bit of tweaking the other day and couldn't figure out why I was crashing. Then I realized I had left Net Nanny on and she had edited out all the "naughty bits", like "bomb_cabinet".

It'll do that. haha.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

GreatDane · January 19, 2001, 00:49

One annying thing I noticed in the diplomod is that when I exchange an advance with the AI for gold I do not get any gold. I think they got my advance so they cheated.

I don't know if this is a bug in the game or in your mod cause I never tried exhanging advances for gold with the AI before.

Maybe it is just my version or something so I would like to have it confirmed. Otherwise I will have to reinstall the game/mod.

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to v. 3.0

GreatDane

GreatDane · January 19, 2001, 00:49

One annying thing I noticed in the diplomod is that when I exchange an advance with the AI for gold I do not get any gold. I think they got my advance so they cheated.

I don't know if this is a bug in the game or in your mod cause I never tried exhanging advances for gold with the AI before.

Maybe it is just my version or something so I would like to have it confirmed. Otherwise I will have to reinstall the game/mod.

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to v. 3.0

GreatDane